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Ayla Kumar
I'm a landlord who got hit with this exact same issue. The key is understanding the difference between non-passive and passive income. Your father-in-law's salary/business income is non-passive, while rental income is considered passive (unless he qualifies as a real estate professional). The tax code only allows you to offset passive losses against passive income unless you meet specific exceptions. For high earners (over $150k), those exceptions get phased out completely. Here's the really frustrating part - the losses don't disappear forever. They get suspended and carried forward until either: 1) He has passive income to offset them against, or 2) He sells the property. So he's still getting dinged with higher taxes now even though these are legitimate expenses.
So what's the point of even owning rental properties if you're a high earner? Sounds like the tax benefits are completely eliminated.
Ayla Kumar
ā¢There are still significant advantages to owning rental properties as a high earner. First, you're building equity as tenants pay down your mortgage. Second, you benefit from property appreciation over time. Third, you can still deduct expenses up to the amount of rental income (preventing tax on phantom income). Most importantly, those suspended losses aren't gone forever - they're carried forward indefinitely. When you eventually sell the property, all those accumulated losses can be used to offset the gain from the sale. Many investors also deliberately generate passive income from other sources (like REITs or certain business activities) specifically to absorb these carried-forward losses. The key is long-term tax planning rather than focusing on year-to-year deductions.
Has your father-in-law done any grouping elections for his properties? My CPA had me file a statement with my return to group all my rental activities as a single activity for passive loss purposes. This doesn't get around the income limitations, but it can help if some properties make money while others lose money.
Kai Santiago
ā¢I second this recommendation. Grouping the properties helped me a ton because my commercial property had positive income while my residential rentals were showing losses after depreciation. Without grouping, I couldn't use the losses from one against the gains from another.
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I'm still confused about the difference between Subpart F income and GILTI. My foreign corporation in Thailand has mostly service income. Would this fall under GILTI or Subpart F? I keep getting mixed messages from different accountants.
Generally, service income from foreign corporations doesn't automatically trigger Subpart F unless it meets specific criteria (like services performed for a related party or services performed outside the country of incorporation). If your service income doesn't meet the Subpart F criteria, then any retained earnings would potentially be subject to GILTI.
Andre Dupont
PSA for anyone dealing with GILTI: don't forget about the high-tax exception! If your foreign income is already taxed at more than 18.9% (90% of the current 21% US corporate rate), you might be able to exclude that income from GILTI. Saved me a ton on my Singapore business where corporate rate is 17% but with some local surtaxes it pushed me over the threshold.
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Rajiv Kumar
22 Just a heads up - while it's true you don't need to file if your gifts are under the annual exclusion, make sure you're calculating everything correctly. Did you give any other gifts to these same people during the year? Cash, paying bills directly, or adding someone to property deeds all count. Also, if you're married, you and your spouse can split gifts (effectively doubling the exclusion amount) but you DO need to file Form 709 to elect gift splitting even if you don't owe any tax.
Rajiv Kumar
ā¢1 Thanks for this additional info! The only gifts I gave were those three payments for my kids' down payments. I'm widowed, so no spouse to worry about for gift splitting. I definitely didn't exceed $17,000 per person - each payment was exactly $15,000 since that was the exclusion limit I remembered from a few years ago (before it increased).
Rajiv Kumar
ā¢22 You're all set then! The annual exclusion was $15,000 for 2018-2021, then increased to $16,000 for 2022, and $17,000 for 2023. Since your gifts were $15,000 each, you're well under the threshold even for 2022. And being widowed means you don't need to worry about the gift-splitting election. Just keep good records of these gifts for your own files - dates, amounts, and recipients. This can be helpful in case questions ever arise in the future, but you definitely don't need to file Form 709.
Rajiv Kumar
5 Somewhat related question - if I did need to file Form 709 but had already filed an extension with Form 8892, when would the new deadline be? Is it October 15th like regular income tax extensions?
Rajiv Kumar
ā¢19 Gift tax extensions work differently than income tax extensions. Form 8892 extends the deadline to October 15th, but only if you also filed an extension for your income tax return (Form 1040). If you didn't extend your 1040, the 709 extension only goes to April 15th plus 6 months, which would also be October 15th. So either way, October 15th would be your deadline.
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Former salon manager here. What your wife's employer is doing is unfortunately common practice in some salons, but it's definitely not right. Here's why they're doing it: when tips are properly reported, the business has to pay the employer portion of Social Security and Medicare taxes on those tips. By telling employees to "handle it themselves," they're avoiding these costs. For credit card tips specifically, this is extremely sketchy because there's already a paper trail. The IRS can easily see that the business processed credit card tips but didn't report them properly on W-2s. Your wife should absolutely keep her own detailed records of ALL tips received, noting which were cash and which were credit card. This will protect her if there's ever an audit.
Is there a way to report this kind of behavior anonymously? My salon does the same thing and I'm worried about taxes but don't want to lose my job for causing problems.
Yes, you can report tax compliance issues anonymously using IRS Form 3949-A (Information Referral). You can submit this form without providing your personal information, and the IRS is prohibited from disclosing the source of their information during an investigation. That said, if you're the only employee suddenly concerned about tip reporting, it might be obvious who made the report. Some employees choose to first approach the situation by simply saying they need proper tip reporting for mortgage application purposes or similar financial reasons - this sometimes can change the employer's approach without creating conflict.
Just want to add - check your state laws too! Some states have additional requirements for tip reporting and minimum wage calculations for tipped employees. In my state, employers who take a tip credit have to provide written notification to employees about tip reporting procedures. Also, if your wife is getting health insurance or other benefits through this job, unreported income could affect her qualification or subsidy amounts if she's getting coverage through the ACA marketplace. It really can create a cascade of problems beyond just the IRS issues others mentioned.
Alicia Stern
ā¢This is a really good point! When I was reporting tips incorrectly, it messed up my income verification for an apartment rental application. The landlord wanted proof of income and my paystubs showed way less than I actually made. Created a huge headache and almost lost the apartment.
Justin Evans
Just got thru this exact same situation!! Missed filing 2023 due to a family health crisis. My advice is DO NOT IGNORE THE IRS NOTICES when they start coming. I made that mistake and ended up with a substitute return where the IRS calculated my taxes without any of my deductions or credits, and it was WAY higher than what I actually owed. File ASAP even if you can't pay right now. The failure-to-file penalty is much bigger than the failure-to-pay penalty, so at least stop that one from growing!!!
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Emily Parker
ā¢How long did it take before they filed a substitute return for you? I'm trying to figure out how much time I have before that happens to me.
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Ezra Collins
If you're really overwhelmed, consider getting professional help from a tax attorney or an Enrolled Agent (EA) rather than just a regular tax preparer. They can represent you before the IRS if needed and might be able to negotiate penalty reductions. I spent about $800 on an EA when I had 3 years of unfiled returns, and they saved me over $3,000 in penalties through abatement requests and proper filing strategies. Sometimes spending money on professional help actually saves you more in the long run.
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