


Ask the community...
I just want to echo what several others have said about documentation being absolutely critical in these family rental situations. I learned this the hard way when I got a notice from the IRS about my rental property expenses a couple years ago. What I wish I had known from the beginning is that the IRS specifically looks for whether you're operating with a "profit motive" when determining if something is truly a rental business versus personal use. When you're charging family significantly below market rate (like your sister paying only utilities plus 30% of mortgage), it's really hard to argue you have a genuine profit motive. The good news is that treating it as personal use isn't necessarily bad - you just need to be clear about what that means for your taxes. You won't report her payments as income, but you also can't deduct things like depreciation, repairs, or insurance as rental expenses. You can still claim mortgage interest and property taxes on Schedule A if you itemize. One practical tip: if you haven't already, I'd suggest drafting some kind of simple agreement with your sister that documents the arrangement. Even if it's below market rate, having something in writing that shows the terms, payment responsibilities, etc. can be helpful if questions ever come up later. It doesn't change the tax treatment, but it shows you're treating it seriously rather than just informal cost-sharing.
This is such valuable advice about the profit motive test - I hadn't considered that angle before! I'm actually dealing with a similar situation where my brother is staying in my investment property and only covering the HOA fees and part of the utilities. Your point about having something in writing really resonates with me. Even though it's family, I think documenting the arrangement formally would help clarify expectations on both sides and provide that paper trail you mentioned. Did you use any specific template for your agreement, or just write up something simple outlining the payment terms and responsibilities? Also, when you mention that mortgage interest and property taxes can still be claimed on Schedule A - is there any limit to how much of those expenses I can deduct if the property is classified as personal use? Or can I deduct the full amounts as long as I'm itemizing?
Great question about the Schedule A deductions! For mortgage interest and property taxes on a property classified as personal use, you can generally deduct the full amounts as long as you itemize, but there are some important limitations to be aware of. For property taxes, you're subject to the $10,000 SALT (State and Local Tax) cap that includes property taxes on all your properties combined with state/local income taxes. So if you're already at that limit with your primary residence and other taxes, you might not get additional benefit from the second property's taxes. For mortgage interest, it depends on when you acquired the property and how much debt you have. The current rules allow deduction of interest on up to $750,000 of acquisition debt ($1 million if acquired before December 15, 2017) across all your residences. Since this is your second property, it would count toward that limit. For the written agreement, I kept mine really simple - just a one-page document stating the monthly amount, what utilities/expenses each person covers, and basic terms like notice period for changes. Nothing fancy, but having it dated and signed by both parties shows it's a deliberate arrangement rather than just informal help. You can find basic templates online or even just create a simple bullet-point agreement.
I've been following this thread with great interest since I'm dealing with a very similar situation with my adult daughter living in my rental property. She pays about 50% of what I could get at market rate. One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is the potential impact on your basis and depreciation if you ever decide to sell the property. When you treat a property as personal use (which sounds like the right classification for your situation), you can't claim depreciation deductions during those years. This actually preserves more of your basis for when you eventually sell, which could be beneficial from a capital gains perspective. Also, I'd recommend keeping records of what fair market rent would be each year, even if you're not charging it. This helps establish a clear record of your decision-making process and shows you're aware of the market value. I take screenshots of comparable rentals in my area every January and keep them in my tax files. The key insight that helped me was realizing that the IRS isn't trying to penalize family arrangements - they just want to make sure people aren't artificially creating rental losses to offset other income when the property is really being used for personal/family purposes. Once I understood that perspective, the rules made a lot more sense.
Anyone know if box spreads on SPX options still qualify for section 1256 treatment? I've been using them for pseudo-financing and I'm not sure if I should be checking any of these elections for tax purposes.
Yes, box spreads on SPX options still qualify for section 1256 treatment because they're comprised of SPX options, which are section 1256 contracts. The strategy doesn't change the underlying tax treatment. Whether you should check any of the elections depends more on your overall tax situation than the specific strategy. If your box spreads resulted in a net loss and you had section 1256 gains in previous years, the "Net section 1256 contracts loss election" might be beneficial. The mixed straddle elections would only apply if you're combining these positions with non-section 1256 positions as part of a unified strategy.
I've been dealing with Form 6781 for my options trading for the past few years, and I totally feel your pain about the desktop vs. online TurboTax issue. The desktop version definitely requires more manual work for section 1256 contracts. A few quick tips that might help: 1. Double-check that your SPX and VIX options are actually being treated as section 1256 contracts in the desktop version. Sometimes the import doesn't categorize them correctly and they end up on Form 8949 instead of Form 6781. 2. For the "Net section 1256 contracts loss election" - only select this if you had significant section 1256 gains in the previous 3 years that you want to offset. If you didn't have prior gains, this election won't benefit you and your losses will just carry forward normally. 3. The account description can be pretty straightforward. I usually put something like "Options Trading Account - [Broker Name]" and have never had issues with the IRS. 4. If you're really stuck, consider reaching out to a tax professional who specializes in trading taxes. The cost might be worth it for the peace of mind, especially if you're dealing with complex positions or significant amounts. The learning curve is definitely steep when switching from the online version, but once you get the hang of it, the desktop version does give you more control over how everything is categorized.
This is really helpful advice! I'm also new to dealing with section 1256 contracts and had no idea that the desktop version might categorize trades differently than the online version. Quick question - when you mention reaching out to a tax professional, do you have any recommendations for finding someone who actually understands options trading? I've talked to a couple of CPAs in my area and they seemed pretty unfamiliar with section 1256 treatment. Also, is there a way to double-check the categorization after you've imported everything, or do you have to go through each trade individually?
Has anyone used the actual expense method vs. standard mileage rate for a leased vehicle? I've heard conflicting advice about which is better.
I've done both over the years. For leasing, I found the actual expense method usually works out better, especially if you have a more expensive vehicle. Here's why: with leasing, you're paying for the car's depreciation in your lease payment, plus you have insurance, maintenance, fuel, etc. The standard mileage rate might not fully cover all these costs.
Just wanted to share my experience as someone who made this exact decision last year. I'm also a sole proprietor with about 55% business use on my vehicle. After going through all the calculations (and talking to my CPA), I ended up purchasing instead of leasing, primarily because of the Section 179 deduction and bonus depreciation opportunities. For 2024, you can still deduct the full purchase price in year one for many vehicles under Section 179 (up to $1,220,000 limit), which created a significant immediate tax benefit for my business cash flow. One thing that really helped was keeping meticulous records from day one. I use a simple app to log every trip with the business purpose, and I photograph my odometer reading at the beginning and end of each tax year. The IRS loves detailed contemporaneous records if you ever get audited. Also, don't forget about the state tax implications - some states have different rules for vehicle deductions that might influence your decision. In my state, the sales tax on the purchase was also partially deductible as a business expense. The key is running the numbers for YOUR specific situation rather than relying on general advice. Vehicle cost, expected mileage, business use percentage, and your current tax bracket all factor into what's optimal.
This is really helpful! I'm curious about the Section 179 deduction you mentioned - is there a specific vehicle weight requirement or price limit for this? I've heard mixed things about whether regular passenger cars qualify versus trucks/SUVs. Also, when you say you can deduct the "full purchase price," does that mean 100% even if you're only using it 55% for business, or do you still have to prorate it based on business use percentage? I'm leaning toward purchasing now after reading everyone's experiences, but I want to make sure I understand the depreciation benefits correctly before making the decision.
Have we considered that the best approach might depend on the type of card you're transferring to? Emerald Card to bank account transfers are straightforward, but transferring to another prepaid card can have different requirements, right? The community wisdom seems to be: 1. For bank transfers: ACH is best (1-3 days, minimal/no fees) 2. For immediate needs: ATM withdrawal then deposit (same day, ATM fees apply) 3. For another prepaid card: Direct transfer via app if supported (varies by card) 4. For paper trail: Request a check (slowest but most documented) Whatever method you choose, keep all confirmation emails and screenshots in case you need to reference the transaction later.
I just went through this exact process last month! Here's what worked for me: I used the Emerald Card mobile app and selected "Move Money" then "External Transfer." The key thing I learned is to make sure your receiving account is already verified in their system - this can take 1-2 business days if it's your first time adding it. For the fees, I was charged $3.95 for a standard ACH transfer (took 3 business days) but they also offered an "expedited" option for $15.95 that would complete in 1 business day. Since you mentioned consolidating finances after marriage, you might want to set up the receiving account ahead of time so future transfers are smoother. One tip: if your refund amount is large, double-check the daily transfer limits. Mine was capped at $2,500 per day, so I had to split my $4,100 refund into two transfers. The whole process was actually pretty straightforward once I got past the initial setup!
This is super helpful - thank you for sharing your actual experience! I'm in almost the exact same situation (just got married too, congrats!) and was dreading having to figure this out. The tip about setting up the receiving account ahead of time is gold - I would have definitely tried to do everything at once and gotten frustrated with the verification delays. Did you have any issues with the two-transfer approach for amounts over the daily limit, or did it handle that pretty smoothly?
Gabrielle Dubois
Has anyone used the Weinberg or Zaritzky method for these calculations? I've heard those are more accurate for increasing payment CLATs than the standard IRS approach, especially when the grantor is under 60 and the payment increase rate exceeds 2%.
0 coins
Amara Okafor
ā¢The Zaritzky method is actually quite good for younger grantors with higher escalation rates. It uses a modified Monte Carlo simulation that better accounts for the correlation between increasing payments and survival probabilities. However, it's not officially recognized by the IRS, so while it might be more mathematically sound, you may face pushback if audited. The standard approach I outlined earlier is safer from a compliance perspective. If you're working with a significant amount of money, it's worth calculating both ways and discussing with your tax advisor which approach makes more sense given your risk tolerance.
0 coins
Caleb Stone
For anyone working through this calculation manually, I'd recommend setting up your spreadsheet with separate columns for: (1) Year, (2) Probability of survival to that year, (3) Payment amount for that year, (4) Present value factor using Section 7520 rate, and (5) Present value of expected payment. The key insight is that for each year X, you're calculating: [Survival Probability] Ć [Payment Amount] Ć [1/(1+Section 7520 rate)^X]. Your payment amount grows each year by your chosen escalation rate, so Year 2 payment = Year 1 Ć (1 + escalation rate), Year 3 = Year 1 Ć (1 + escalation rate)^2, etc. I found it helpful to extend the calculation out to at least age 100 for the grantor, even though the present values become tiny in later years. The sum of all these present values gives you the charitable lead interest, and subtracting that from your initial contribution gives you the remainder interest. One tip: double-check your mortality table - make sure you're using the correct table for the valuation date and that you're reading the survival probabilities correctly (some tables show death rates instead).
0 coins
Zoe Stavros
ā¢This is exactly the kind of step-by-step breakdown I was looking for! Thank you for the detailed spreadsheet structure. One quick clarification - when you mention "survival probability to that year," are you referring to the cumulative probability that the grantor survives from the current age to age+X years, or the conditional probability of being alive in year X given they survived to the start of that year? I want to make sure I'm interpreting the mortality tables correctly since this seems like a critical component that could significantly impact the final calculation.
0 coins