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This is a fascinating discussion that touches on some really complex tax planning strategies. As someone who's dealt with multi-state tax issues (though nowhere near NHL player complexity), I can confirm that the jock tax creates real challenges. One thing I'd add is that the advantage isn't just about the player's salary - it extends to their entire financial ecosystem. Players in no-tax states often structure their off-season training businesses, endorsement deals, and investment income to flow through their tax-friendly home state. So a Florida-based player might have their personal training company, equipment endorsements, and appearance fees all structured to minimize overall tax burden. The salary cap issue is the real kicker though. Teams in high-tax markets are essentially operating with a smaller "effective" salary cap because they need to offer more gross compensation to match the after-tax value of offers from no-tax states. It's not just about individual fairness to players - it creates a structural competitive imbalance that the league hasn't really addressed. I'm curious if anyone knows whether the NHL has ever considered adjusting salary cap calculations based on local tax rates, similar to how some other compensation systems account for cost of living differences?
Great point about the structural competitive imbalance! I don't think the NHL has seriously considered salary cap adjustments for tax differences, and honestly it would be a nightmare to implement. Tax rates change, players move residences, and you'd need to constantly recalculate cap hits based on individual circumstances. What's really wild is that this affects team building strategy beyond just free agency. Teams in high-tax markets might prioritize drafting and developing talent since rookie contracts are standardized - a first-round pick makes the same amount whether they're in Florida or Toronto. But once those players hit free agency, the tax disadvantage kicks in hard. The endorsement income structuring you mentioned is huge too. A star player in New York has way more endorsement opportunities than someone in Tampa, but if they can't structure those deals through a tax-friendly state, they might actually come out behind financially despite the bigger market. It's like the league accidentally created this weird economic puzzle where geographic location matters more than market size in some cases.
The tax discussion here is spot on, but I want to add something from the IRS perspective that might clarify things. The "jock tax" rules are actually pretty straightforward - athletes pay taxes based on "duty days" in each state, which includes games, practices, team meetings, and even travel days in some jurisdictions. What makes this especially complex for NHL players is that they're not just dealing with state income taxes - they're also navigating different rules for things like signing bonuses (often taxed where the contract is signed), endorsement income (taxed where services are performed), and investment income (taxed based on residency). The 5-8% advantage estimate mentioned earlier is realistic for salary, but the total financial impact can be much larger when you factor in all income sources. A player who establishes legitimate residency in a no-tax state can potentially save on ALL their non-game income, which for star players often exceeds their salary. One thing to watch out for though - states are getting more aggressive about auditing high-income athletes. California and New York in particular have entire departments dedicated to tracking whether athletes are legitimately avoiding taxes or just claiming fake residency. The documentation requirements are getting stricter every year.
This is really helpful insight from the IRS side! I'm curious about something you mentioned - what kind of documentation do states like California and New York typically look for when they audit athletes claiming out-of-state residency? I imagine it's more than just having an address somewhere else. Do they track things like where you get medical care, where your kids go to school, gym memberships, that sort of thing? And how far back do these audits typically go - is it just the current tax year or do they dig into multiple years of residency claims? The "duty days" calculation sounds incredibly complex too. Does that mean if a team flies from Florida to California for a game, the travel day counts as California income even though they're just passing through?
Just wanted to add that if you're doing this house flipping thing regularly, you might want to consider setting up quarterly estimated payments for next year too. I got hit with a nasty underpayment penalty my first year flipping houses because I didn't realize I should have been making quarterly payments all along.
This is good advice. Do you use tax software to calculate your quarterly amounts? Or do you work with an accountant?
One thing I'd add that helped me tremendously when I was in a similar situation - make sure you keep detailed records of all your expenses related to the property renovation. Things like materials, contractor fees, permits, even mileage to/from the property can be deducted against your capital gains. I was so focused on figuring out how to pay the estimated taxes that I almost forgot to properly document all my renovation expenses. Ended up saving me about $3k in taxes when I filed. Keep all receipts and take photos of major work being done - the IRS loves documentation if they ever audit real estate transactions. Also, since you mentioned this was with a business partner, make sure you're both on the same page about how you're reporting the income and expenses. If you split everything 50/50, your tax calculations should reflect that split consistently.
This is really valuable advice! I kept most of my receipts but didn't think about documenting mileage - that's a great tip. Quick question: when you say "split consistently," do you mean we both need to report the exact same dollar amounts on our returns? We did split everything 50/50 but I want to make sure we don't accidentally report different numbers that might raise red flags. Also, did you use any specific app or method to track all the renovation expenses? I have receipts scattered everywhere and I'm worried I might miss some deductions.
I'm new to this community but have been following this discussion closely as I'm considering helping my daughter with her upcoming IVF treatments. The conflicting advice from tax professionals that everyone's mentioned really resonates with me - I've gotten completely different answers from three different CPAs about this exact issue. What strikes me most is how unanimous the consensus has become once the actual tax code references were cited. It's clear that IVF treatments qualify under Publication 502's fertility enhancement provisions, and the IRC Section 2503(e) exclusion for direct medical payments is well-established law. I'm particularly grateful for the practical advice about working with the IVF clinic to ensure proper billing procedures. As a parent wanting to help my child during this difficult time, knowing that the tax system actually supports this kind of medical assistance gives me great comfort. For anyone still dealing with resistant tax preparers on this issue, it might be worth finding someone who specializes in gift and estate tax matters. Sometimes general practitioners just aren't familiar with these specific provisions, even though they're clearly defined in the tax code.
Welcome to the community! Your situation as a parent wanting to help with your daughter's IVF treatments really highlights how important it is to get accurate information on this topic. The fact that you've gotten completely different answers from three different CPAs just shows how much confusion exists around fertility treatments in the tax world. I'm glad this discussion helped clarify things for you. The legal framework is actually very supportive of family assistance with medical expenses - it's just that not all tax professionals are familiar with the specific fertility provisions. Your point about seeking out someone who specializes in gift and estate tax is excellent advice for anyone dealing with pushback from their current preparer. It must be such a relief to know you can help your daughter without worrying about gift tax complications. Having that financial support during IVF can make such a difference, both practically and emotionally. Wishing you and your daughter all the best with her treatments!
Thank you all for this incredibly thorough discussion! As someone who's been lurking in this community for a while but never posted, I felt compelled to share my experience after reading through all these helpful responses. I actually went through this exact situation about six months ago when I helped my sister-in-law with her IVF treatments. Like many of you, I initially got conflicting advice from tax professionals - one said it was definitely a gift tax issue, another said it wasn't, and my regular CPA admitted he wasn't sure about fertility treatments specifically. What ultimately gave me confidence was doing exactly what several people here suggested: I contacted the IVF clinic directly and worked with their billing department to set up payments. They were incredibly helpful and even provided documentation showing that the treatments were medically necessary for fertility enhancement. I ended up paying about $28,000 directly to the clinic over the course of her treatment cycle. When tax season came around, my CPA (after doing his own research into Publication 502 and IRC Section 2503(e)) confirmed that no gift tax return was needed. The direct payment to the medical provider for qualifying medical expenses made it completely exempt from gift tax limitations. My sister-in-law is now 7 months pregnant with twins, and knowing that I could help without creating tax complications for either of us made the whole experience that much more meaningful. For anyone still on the fence about this issue, the law really is clear once you dig into the actual IRS publications rather than relying on general assumptions about gift tax rules.
Congratulations on your sister-in-law's pregnancy with twins! What a wonderful outcome after all that stress about the tax implications. Your experience perfectly illustrates why this discussion has been so valuable - the actual law is clear, but there's so much confusion among practitioners that it can be really scary to move forward without getting multiple confirmations. I'm impressed that you took the initiative to work directly with the IVF clinic's billing department. That seems like such a smart approach that I hadn't considered before reading these responses. Having them provide the documentation about medical necessity was brilliant too - even though it may not have been strictly required, having that paper trail must have given you extra peace of mind. Your story really drives home the point that several others have made about the importance of getting accurate information on this topic. The difference between thinking you need to file a gift tax return (and use up lifetime exemption) versus knowing you're completely exempt is huge. Thank you for sharing such a positive real-world example of how this all works in practice!
Has anyone addressed the retirement account angle here? One major benefit of S-corp employment is that you can contribute to a Solo 401k as both employer and employee. If you're not on payroll anymore, you're missing that opportunity. When I cut back my S-corp involvement, I kept myself on a minimal salary partly to maintain my retirement contributions. Worth considering if retirement planning is important to you.
I actually switched to contributing more to my new employer's 401k to make up the difference when I took myself off my S-corp payroll. If the new job has decent retirement benefits, it might not be worth the extra payroll taxes just to get the Solo 401k benefits.
This is a really common situation post-COVID, and you're handling it correctly from what I can see. Since you're not performing any services for the S-corp anymore and your parents are properly W2'd as the actual workers, you shouldn't need to take a salary. The key documentation points others mentioned are crucial though. I'd add that you should also keep records of your new W2 employment showing you're working full-time elsewhere - this helps demonstrate you're not available to provide substantial services to your S-corp. One thing to watch out for: if you're still involved in any major business decisions (like whether to take on new clients, major expense approvals, etc.), document exactly what those activities are and how minimal they are. The IRS generally looks for a pattern of regular, ongoing services rather than occasional ownership decisions. Your situation sounds legitimate, but having clear documentation will save you headaches if you ever get questioned about it.
This is really helpful advice about documenting the transition. I'm curious though - what exactly counts as "major business decisions" that might still require salary? For example, if I'm still the one who has to sign the annual corporate tax return or approve the accountant's fees, does that cross the line into substantial services? I want to make sure I'm not inadvertently creating a problem by handling these basic ownership responsibilities.
Adrian Hughes
Something else to consider is the potential impact on other benefits. When your WFH stipend is treated as taxable income, it increases your total wages, which can affect calculations for things like Social Security taxes, unemployment insurance, and even retirement plan contribution limits. On the positive side, if you have a 401(k) or similar retirement plan with employer matching, the higher reported income could mean you can contribute more to hit percentage-based limits. However, you'll also pay more in Social Security and Medicare taxes on that additional $2,400. If your company is open to restructuring this as an accountable plan, it's worth emphasizing to HR that this change would benefit the company too - they'd save on their portion of payroll taxes (Social Security, Medicare, unemployment insurance) on the stipend amounts. This creates a win-win situation where both employer and employees save money. I'd recommend calculating exactly how much extra you're paying in taxes on the stipend versus your actual home office expenses to present a compelling case to your HR department.
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Jamal Wilson
ā¢This is a really excellent point about the broader impact on benefits! I hadn't considered how the additional taxable income would affect Social Security and Medicare taxes. That's probably an extra $183 annually just in FICA taxes on the $2,400 stipend (7.65% employee portion). The retirement plan angle is particularly interesting - if someone is contributing a percentage of their salary to their 401(k), that extra $2,400 in reported income could actually boost their annual contributions and any employer matching. Though of course, they're still paying taxes on money they're essentially just passing through to cover work expenses. Do you happen to know if there are any other less obvious benefits or tax implications that get affected when stipends are treated as taxable income versus proper reimbursements? I'm starting to think the total cost difference might be more significant than just the basic income tax hit.
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Jayden Hill
ā¢Great question about other implications! There are actually several additional effects to consider: **State Disability Insurance (SDI)**: In states like California and New York that have SDI programs, you'll pay additional taxes on the stipend amount for these programs too. **Income-based benefit thresholds**: If you're close to any income limits for things like IRA contribution eligibility, student loan interest deduction phase-outs, or even ACA premium subsidies, that extra $2,400 could potentially push you over thresholds. **Workers' compensation**: Since the stipend increases your reported wages, it also increases the basis for workers' comp calculations, which could mean slightly higher premiums for your employer. **Overtime calculations**: For non-exempt employees, if the stipend is treated as wages, it technically should be included in the "regular rate" calculation for overtime pay, which could increase overtime rates slightly. The cumulative effect of all these factors could easily add $300-500 annually to the real cost difference between taxable stipends versus proper expense reimbursement. When you present this to HR, you can show them it's not just about income taxes - there are cascading effects throughout the entire benefits and payroll system that make proper expense reimbursement beneficial for everyone involved.
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Nia Thompson
I went through this exact same situation last year and wanted to share some additional considerations that might help you navigate this with your employer. One thing that worked well for me was putting together a simple cost-benefit analysis to show HR. I calculated not just my personal tax impact, but also what the company was paying in additional payroll taxes on the stipend. When they saw that switching to an accountable plan would save them about $180 annually per employee just in their portion of FICA taxes (7.65% of $2,400), plus reduce their workers' comp and unemployment insurance costs, they were much more receptive to making changes. I also discovered that our payroll provider actually had templates for setting up accountable plans - many companies don't realize how straightforward the administrative side can be. We ended up with a simple quarterly submission process where employees submit receipts through our existing expense reporting system. The key was framing it as a business efficiency improvement rather than just an employee tax complaint. I emphasized how proper expense reimbursement would reduce administrative overhead for payroll processing and eliminate confusion about tax treatment for employees. If your HR team seems hesitant about making changes, you might suggest starting with a pilot program for a few employees to demonstrate how smoothly it works before rolling it out company-wide. Sometimes the fear of complexity is what prevents companies from making beneficial changes like this.
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Louisa Ramirez
ā¢This is such a smart approach! I love how you positioned it as a business efficiency improvement rather than just a tax complaint. The cost-benefit analysis showing the company's payroll tax savings is brilliant - I bet most HR departments don't realize they're paying extra taxes on these stipends too. I'm definitely going to use your template idea when I approach my HR team. Do you happen to remember what specific documentation requirements your company ended up implementing? I want to make sure I can suggest something that's not too burdensome for them administratively, but still meets the IRS requirements for an accountable plan. Also, how long did it take from your initial conversation with HR to actually getting the new system implemented? I'm hoping to get this resolved before too many more months of taxable stipends go by!
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