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Has anyone ever tried arguing that a change in your personal involvement with the properties constitutes a material change? Like if you were actively managing all properties when grouped, but now have become passive with one or more of them?
Yes! This worked for me in 2022. I originally grouped 3 properties when I was actively managing all of them, spending >750 hours/year on them collectively. When I took a full-time job and outsourced management on two properties, my involvement dropped dramatically. I documented this change in time commitment and was able to ungroup successfully.
I've been dealing with a similar ungrouping situation and wanted to share what I learned from my research and consultation with a tax professional. The key is really understanding that the IRS looks at whether the original economic rationale for grouping still exists. Beyond what others have mentioned, here are some additional "material changes" that might qualify: - **Debt structure changes**: If you refinanced one property with significantly different terms (like switching from commercial to residential mortgage, or adding/removing personal guarantees) - **Insurance changes**: Moving from a blanket policy covering all properties to separate policies can show they're no longer economically integrated - **Tenant profile shifts**: If one property went from long-term residential to short-term vacation rental, that's a fundamental business model change - **Legal structure modifications**: Changes in LLC operating agreements, management structures, or ownership percentages The documentation is crucial - you need to show the IRS that maintaining the grouping would be "clearly inappropriate" given the new circumstances, not just that ungrouping would save you taxes. One strategy I've seen work is preparing a detailed memo explaining how the properties functioned as an integrated economic unit originally, and how specific changes have disrupted that integration. This proactive documentation can be invaluable if the IRS ever questions your ungrouping decision. Have you considered whether any of these types of changes apply to your situation?
This is incredibly helpful, thank you! The debt structure change point really caught my attention - I actually did refinance one of the three properties in early 2024 to switch from a commercial loan to a residential mortgage with much better terms. The other two properties still have their original commercial financing. Would this type of financing change be significant enough to justify ungrouping? Also, do you have any specific examples of what should be included in that detailed memo you mentioned?
Make sure to double check your W-2s from those years! Box 1 (wages, tips, other compensation) would include any imputed income. If your employer won't give you an accurate breakdown, look at your December paystub for each year and multiply the per-paycheck imputed income by the number of pay periods. When I had this issue, my company refused to issue corrected W-2s, so I had to file Form 4852 (substitute for Form W-2) along with my 1040-X for each year. Total nightmare but got back around $2200.
I work in payroll and this happens ALL THE TIME. The problem is most payroll systems have separate fields for "spouse" and "domestic partner" that control the tax treatment, and often the marriage update only changes the relationship status but not the benefits classification. It's a stupid system design flaw.
This is a really common issue that many newly married couples face! As others have mentioned, you're absolutely right that imputed income should only apply to domestic partners, not legally married spouses. The IRS is clear that employer-provided health insurance for spouses is not taxable income. I'd suggest documenting everything before you approach HR again. Print out your pay stubs showing the imputed income, gather copies of your marriage certificate, and maybe even print out the relevant IRS guidance (Publication 15-B covers this). Sometimes having the official documentation in hand makes the conversation go more smoothly. One thing to watch out for - if your employer fixes this going forward but won't issue corrected W-2s for previous years, you'll definitely want to file those amended returns. The IRS typically allows you to amend returns for up to three years, so depending on when you got married in 2022, you might be able to recover taxes from both 2022 and 2023. Keep pushing on this - it's definitely worth the effort to get it corrected!
Thanks for the detailed advice! I'm definitely going to gather all that documentation before my next conversation with HR. Quick question though - when you mention Publication 15-B, do you know the specific section that covers spouse vs domestic partner health insurance? I want to make sure I'm referencing the right part when I talk to them. Also, has anyone had success getting their employer to issue corrected W-2s, or do most companies just refuse and make you file the amended returns yourself?
I'm dealing with this exact same frustration right now! Applied for my EIN for my small IT consulting business about 3 weeks ago and have been getting that dreaded "high call volume" message every single day. It's incredibly frustrating when you're trying to get your business paperwork in order and the government systems seem designed to block you at every turn. Reading through everyone's experiences here has been a huge help - I had no idea about the Business & Specialty Tax Line at 800-829-4933 or the early morning timing strategies. The success stories from people who got through at 7:01-7:02 AM give me real hope that there's actually a way to break through this phone system maze. I'm definitely going to try the early morning calling approach tomorrow with all my application details organized exactly like the successful callers described. Having backup options like faxing and the in-person TAC visits is reassuring too - it's good to know there are multiple paths to resolution. What strikes me most is how many applications get delayed due to classification errors or technical glitches that could probably be avoided with better system design. But for now, I'm just focused on getting my EIN so I can move forward with my business setup. Thanks to everyone for sharing real solutions instead of just venting - this community has been more helpful than hours of searching the IRS website!
@Marcus Patterson I m'completely new to this community but had to jump in because I m'going through this exact same nightmare! Just applied for my EIN for a small event planning business 2 weeks ago and I m'already losing my mind with those high "call volume messages." This thread has been absolutely invaluable - I had no idea there were so many specific strategies that actually work. The early morning timing approach seems to be the golden ticket, and I love how everyone s'shared such detailed step-by-step instructions. I m'definitely going to try calling 800-829-4933 at 7:01 AM tomorrow with everything written out like @Jamal Harris and others suggested. The backup options like faxing and visiting a local TAC office are great to have in my back pocket too. It s honestly'ridiculous that we need to become phone system experts just to follow up on basic government services, but seeing all these success stories gives me hope that persistence really does pay off. Good luck with your IT consulting business - hopefully we ll both'break through this bureaucratic wall soon!
I'm going through the exact same frustration! Applied for my EIN for a small freelance marketing business 4 weeks ago and have been stuck in that endless "high call volume" loop. It's maddening when you're trying to get your business legally set up and the system seems designed to keep you out. This thread has been incredibly helpful - I had no idea about the Business & Specialty Tax Line at 800-829-4933 or all these timing strategies. The detailed success stories from people like @Jamal Harris and @Nia Williams give me real hope that there's actually a way through this maze. I'm going to try the 7:01 AM calling approach tomorrow with all my details organized exactly like the successful cases described. The phrase "I'm calling to check the status of my EIN application that I submitted X weeks ago" seems to be key for getting straight to the right department without transfers. Also planning to double-check my original application for potential classification issues since so many people discovered errors that were causing delays. The backup options like faxing and visiting a local TAC office are great to know about too. It's frustrating that basic government services require this level of strategy, but I really appreciate everyone sharing what actually works instead of just complaining. This community has been more helpful than anything on the official IRS website!
I actually made a huge mistake with these classifications last year. I treated the sale of my business equipment as straight capital gains without considering the 1245 recapture rules. Ended up having to file an amended return and pay a bunch more tax plus interest. Don't be like me - make sure you understand how these work or get professional help. The difference in tax treatment can be significant!
The good news is that once you understand the basic framework, it becomes much clearer! Here's my simplified approach: Think of it as a two-step process: 1. First, determine if your property qualifies as Section 1231 property (business use, held over 1 year) 2. Then, figure out if it's 1245 (personal property like equipment) or 1250 (real property like buildings) for depreciation recapture For your equipment and commercial property situation: - Equipment = likely 1231 AND 1245 property - Commercial building = likely 1231 AND 1250 property - Land portion = just capital asset (no depreciation involved) The key insight is that 1231 gives you the framework for favorable tax treatment, while 1245/1250 determine how much of any gain gets "recaptured" as ordinary income due to depreciation you've already claimed. I'd recommend creating a simple spreadsheet listing each asset, its original cost, accumulated depreciation, and potential sale price. This will help you see exactly how the rules apply to your specific situation. And definitely don't rush through this - as others have mentioned, getting it wrong can be costly!
This is exactly the kind of clear breakdown I needed! The two-step process makes so much more sense than trying to figure out all three sections at once. I'm definitely going to create that spreadsheet you mentioned - having everything laid out will probably help me spot any issues before I file. Quick follow-up question: when you say "accumulated depreciation," does that include bonus depreciation I might have claimed in previous years? I took advantage of the 100% bonus depreciation on some equipment purchases and want to make sure I'm accounting for that correctly in the recapture calculation.
Fatima Al-Sayed
Congratulations on your upcoming wedding! I went through a very similar situation two years ago and wanted to share what I learned. The month-by-month eligibility calculation that others have mentioned is absolutely correct, but there's one additional detail that might help you feel even more confident. When you file Form 8962, there's actually a "safe harbor" provision for people whose income changes due to marriage. If your combined income for the year (including the pre-marriage months) is still under 400% of the Federal Poverty Level, your repayment amount is capped even if you technically received more credits than you qualified for. Given that your individual income was $38K and your fiancΓ©'s is $72K, your combined annual income of around $110K should still be well under the 400% FPL threshold for a married couple (which is about $140K for 2024). This means even in a worst-case scenario, any repayment would be limited. Also, definitely take advantage of that employer insurance option starting in December. Most employer plans have better coverage anyway, and it eliminates any uncertainty about marketplace calculations for the rest of the year. Don't let tax stress dampen your wedding joy - you're going to be just fine!
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Sarah Ali
β’This is exactly the kind of detailed information I was hoping to find! The safe harbor provision you mentioned is something I hadn't heard about before - that's incredibly reassuring to know there are caps on repayment even if something goes wrong with the calculations. Your point about the 400% FPL threshold is really helpful too. I was so focused on worrying about losing eligibility that I didn't even think about the repayment limitations. Knowing that our combined income should still be well under that threshold makes me feel so much more confident about proceeding with our November wedding. Thank you for sharing your experience and congratulations on getting through your own similar situation successfully! It's so helpful to hear from someone who actually went through this process.
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Summer Green
I'm dealing with a very similar situation - getting married in December and have been receiving Premium Tax Credits all year. Reading through everyone's responses has been incredibly helpful, especially learning about the month-by-month eligibility calculation. One thing I wanted to add that might help others: make sure to keep detailed records of when you actually get married versus when you update various systems. I've been told by a tax preparer that the IRS goes by your actual marriage date for the calculations, not when you updated your marketplace account or employer benefits. Also, for anyone in this situation, I found it helpful to request a projected 1095-A from the marketplace before the end of the year. This shows you exactly how much in Premium Tax Credits you've received so far and helps you estimate what the impact will be for those final months as a married couple. The advice about maximizing 401k contributions for the last couple months is brilliant - I hadn't thought of that strategy but it makes perfect sense for lowering your MAGI during the married filing period. Thanks to everyone who shared their experiences here. It's so reassuring to know this is a common situation with clear solutions rather than the tax disaster I was imagining!
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Victoria Jones
β’This is such a comprehensive summary of all the key points! I'm also getting married later this year and was panicking about the Premium Tax Credit situation until I found this thread. The idea of requesting a projected 1095-A before year-end is genius - I had no idea that was even possible. Your point about keeping records of actual marriage date versus system updates is really important too. I can definitely see how there could be confusion if someone updates their marketplace account weeks before or after the actual wedding date. One question for you or anyone else who's been through this - when you say "detailed records," what specific documentation should we be keeping? Obviously the marriage certificate, but are there other documents that would be helpful to have organized before tax season? Thanks for sharing your experience and adding those practical tips! It's amazing how much more manageable this all seems when you have the right information and hear from people who've actually navigated it successfully.
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