This has been an incredibly informative discussion! As someone who will be eligible for SS at 62 in a couple of years, I had no idea about the nuances between different types of pre-tax deductions and how they affect the earnings test calculation. The key takeaway for me is that SSA uses W-2 Box 1 earnings, which already accounts for 401(k) contributions but NOT traditional IRA contributions. That's a crucial distinction I hadn't understood before. I'm also intrigued by the strategies mentioned - particularly the idea of deferring bonuses or PTO payouts as "special payments" and the possibility of withdrawing an application within 12 months if the math doesn't work out. These aren't options I would have known about without this community discussion. For those still working and considering early filing, it seems like the consensus is pretty clear: unless you can get your annual earnings significantly below the limit through reduced hours or part-time work, waiting until closer to FRA makes more financial sense. The earnings test penalty is just too steep for higher earners. Thanks to everyone who shared their real experiences - this practical knowledge is invaluable for retirement planning!

This discussion has been incredibly enlightening! I'm 61 and was considering filing at 62 while continuing to work part-time at around $35,000 annually. Based on what I'm reading here, even at that reduced income level, I'd still be over the earnings limit by about $12,680, which would mean losing roughly $6,340 in benefits. What really struck me was the explanation about how 401(k) contributions reduce your Box 1 earnings but IRA contributions don't affect the earnings test calculation. I've been maxing out both, so I thought I'd be in better shape than I actually am. The idea of negotiating reduced hours or consulting arrangements is particularly appealing. Has anyone had success convincing their employer to restructure their role specifically to help with Social Security planning? I'm wondering if there are creative ways to stay engaged at work while getting under that earnings threshold. Also, the point about benefits being recalculated annually to include higher earning years is reassuring. Even if I wait a few more years to file, these continued earnings at a decent salary should help boost my eventual monthly benefit amount. Thanks to everyone for sharing such detailed, real-world experiences. This is exactly the kind of practical advice that's impossible to get from the official SSA materials!

This is absolutely infuriating and unfortunately not uncommon. I work as a paralegal at a disability law firm and see these cases regularly. The good news is that your sister's case is NOT subject to Administrative Finality - that 4-year rule doesn't apply here since everything happened so recently. The ALJ made an error in their interpretation. When they found that SSA was wrong and your sister properly reported, they absolutely have the authority to order a full refund of improperly collected funds. I suspect the judge may have confused different types of overpayment cases or applied the wrong regulation. Here's what your sister needs to do immediately: 1. File that Appeals Council review (sounds like she already did - good!) 2. In the appeal, specifically cite 20 CFR 404.502(c) which allows for reopening and revision of determinations 3. Request a complete administrative record review 4. Consider filing a 1696 form to get representation - many attorneys will take these cases on contingency The key argument is that this is a "clerical error" case, not an Administrative Finality case. SSA received her reports but failed to process them correctly. That's their mistake and they cannot keep money collected due to their own processing error. Don't give up - this is absolutely winnable with the right legal approach.

I'm so sorry your sister is going through this - what an absolute nightmare! As someone who's dealt with SSA bureaucracy myself, I can't believe they can just keep money they wrongfully collected even when a judge admits they made the mistake. One thing I wanted to add that I haven't seen mentioned yet - has your sister considered filing a complaint with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB)? They handle complaints about government agencies taking money improperly, and sometimes external pressure from other federal agencies can help get SSA to actually follow their own rules correctly. Also, definitely document EVERYTHING moving forward - every phone call, every letter, every interaction. Take photos of all documents before mailing them. I learned this the hard way when SSA "lost" paperwork I sent them twice. The legal advice others have given sounds spot-on, especially about this being a clerical error rather than an Administrative Finality issue. Your sister shouldn't give up - $42,000 is life-changing money and she deserves to get it back when she did everything right. Keep fighting!

I just want to echo what everyone else has said and add my own experience - YES, your spousal benefit calculation absolutely includes all the COLA adjustments that have been applied to your husband's PIA since his FRA in 2021! I went through this same confusing process about 6 months ago. Like you, I got wildly different answers from SSA phone reps - one told me COLAs weren't included, another said they were, and a third gave me a number that was way off from what I calculated myself. What finally worked: I visited my local SSA office with my husband's benefit verification letter from his my Social Security account and his most recent SSA-1099. The in-person representative was incredibly helpful and actually showed me on her computer screen how they calculate spousal benefits using the current COLA-adjusted PIA. Your $175 monthly difference is absolutely realistic - when I did the math for my situation (my husband reached FRA in 2020), the difference between using his original PIA versus the COLA-adjusted PIA was about $200 per month! Those annual adjustments really compound over time. The key is to be very specific when you call or visit: ask for the "current PIA with all COLA adjustments applied since FRA." This eliminates any confusion about which number they should use. Don't stress about the 2025 COLA for now - it will automatically be added to your monthly payment once you start receiving benefits. Focus on getting the correct calculation using the 2021-2024 COLA adjustments first. Good luck, and don't give up! The difference is too significant to accept incorrect information.

I'm currently going through this exact same situation and wanted to share what I've learned after finally getting some clarity. You're absolutely right to be confused - the SSA phone reps give wildly inconsistent information about this! After multiple frustrating phone calls, I visited my local SSA office and got definitive answers. YES, your spousal benefit will be calculated using your husband's current PIA, which includes ALL the COLA adjustments that have been applied since he reached FRA in 2021. So you would include the 2022 (5.9%), 2023 (8.7%), and 2024 (3.2%) COLAs. Your $175 monthly difference calculation sounds very accurate - when those COLAs compound over multiple years, it really adds up significantly. I had a similar calculation that showed about $160 difference for my situation. Here's what worked for me: I brought my spouse's most recent benefit statement and SSA-1099 to the local office and asked to see exactly how they calculate spousal benefits. The representative pulled up the current PIA (with all COLAs included) on her computer and walked me through each step. Much more reliable than phone reps! The magic phrase to use is "current PIA with all COLA adjustments applied since FRA" - this eliminates any confusion about which number they should be using. The 2025 COLA will automatically be added to your benefit once you start receiving payments, so don't worry about factoring that in manually right now. Good luck and don't let anyone shortchange you by using the outdated 2021 PIA!

my mom got switched from SSI to disabled widoes benefits and got EXTRA money but also got medicare too. maybe check if u got medicare now cuz that worth something too even if money went down a little

I'm a benefits advocate and this situation is unfortunately more common than it should be. What you're describing sounds like an automatic conversion to disabled widow's benefits that should have included proper notification. Here are some important points to bring up when you call SSA: 1. Request a written explanation of why the conversion happened and why no advance notice was provided 2. Ask for a benefit verification letter showing your new benefit type and amount 3. Inquire about "protective filing" - they should backdate any corrections to when the error first occurred 4. Most importantly, ask about SSI supplementation if your total benefits decreased The Medicare eligibility others mentioned is actually significant - Medicare Part A is free and could save you hundreds monthly if you were paying for health insurance. Make sure to understand all the changes, not just the cash benefit amount. Also, document everything during your call and ask for a case number. If the first representative can't fully explain what happened, ask to speak with a supervisor or technical expert. You have rights here and shouldn't accept a reduction without proper explanation and appeal options.

I'm new to this community but wanted to add my voice to this incredibly helpful discussion. As someone who recently went through a similar verification hold (though mine was resolved more quickly), I can confirm everything people have shared here about the importance of understanding the difference between "cannot process" and "denied." My situation involved missing quarterly reports from a small business I worked for in the 1990s that went out of business. The key breakthrough came when the SSA agent explained that they have special procedures for documenting earnings from defunct employers - I had to provide old tax returns and write a detailed statement about my employment there. What really helped me was creating a timeline of all my employment history before calling, including approximate dates, employer names, and any documentation I had for each job. When I finally reached an agent (7:18 AM was my magic time!), having everything organized made the conversation much more productive. The county library angle others have mentioned is definitely worth investigating. Many local government positions in the 1990s had their own retirement systems, and SSA needs to verify whether those earnings were subject to Social Security taxes or not. Keep pushing forward - the bureaucracy is frustrating but the outcome is worth it. The retroactive payments really do cover the full waiting period once everything gets sorted out!

I'm new to this community but have been reading through this entire thread and I'm amazed by how helpful everyone has been! As someone who is getting close to retirement age myself, I had no idea that these verification holds were so common with Social Security applications. What really strikes me is how what initially seemed like a devastating denial turned out to be a routine administrative review that many people experience. The practical advice shared here is incredible - from the specific calling times (7:02-7:20 AM seems to be the consensus) to organizing old employment documents by year, to understanding the difference between processing delays and actual denials. The county library employment situation that several people identified as a potential complicating factor really shows how complex these cases can be, especially when local government jobs had their own pension systems that didn't pay into Social Security. For anyone else who might find themselves in this situation in the future, this thread has basically created a comprehensive roadmap for resolving verification holds. The consistent reports of retroactive payments once issues are resolved really shows that persistence through the bureaucracy pays off. Thank you to everyone who took the time to share their experiences - this is exactly the kind of community support that makes navigating government red tape feel much less intimidating!