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Has anyone dealt with the "14 day rule" along with the family rental situation? I'm planning to use my rental property occasionally throughout the year (less than 14 days) while also renting to my nephew. Not sure if this complicates the 80% FMV requirement.
The 14-day rule still applies, but it makes documentation even more important. If you use the property yourself for 14 days or less (or 10% of the days it's rented, whichever is greater), you can still treat it as a rental property assuming you're charging at least 80% FMV to your nephew. Just make sure you keep extremely detailed records of exactly which days you personally used the property. The IRS scrutinizes family rentals with personal use much more carefully. Document everything!
Thanks for the input! That makes sense about the documentation. I'll be sure to keep a detailed calendar of when I use the property versus when my nephew is there. Definitely don't want to trigger any red flags with the IRS!
Something else to keep in mind is that the IRS also looks at the terms of your rental agreement when determining if it's a legitimate rental. Even if you're charging 80% of FMV, if your lease agreement with your family member is too informal or doesn't include standard rental terms (like security deposits, maintenance responsibilities, eviction clauses), the IRS might still question whether it's truly a rental arrangement. I'd recommend drafting a formal lease agreement that you'd use with any tenant - specify the monthly rent, security deposit requirements, who's responsible for utilities and maintenance, lease duration, and termination conditions. Treat it like a business transaction even though it's family. This documentation will support your position that it's a legitimate rental if you're ever audited. Also, make sure you're actually enforcing the lease terms. If you let your family member skip payments or don't follow through on lease provisions, that could undermine your argument that it's a true rental property.
This is excellent advice about the formal lease agreement! I hadn't thought about how the informality of the arrangement could work against me. You're absolutely right that even at 80% FMV, the IRS could still question the legitimacy if it doesn't look like a real rental business. I'm curious - what happens if a family member does miss a payment or two? Obviously we'd want to avoid that, but life happens. Is there a certain threshold where occasional missed payments wouldn't jeopardize the rental classification, or does any leniency automatically make it look like personal use? Also, do you know if the security deposit needs to be at market rate too, or just the monthly rent? I was thinking of asking for a smaller deposit since it's family, but now I'm wondering if that's a mistake.
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Great question about depreciation recapture! You can still amend previous returns to claim missed depreciation, but there are time limits - generally 3 years from the original filing date for each year. However, even if you can't amend, claiming the missed depreciation might still be worth consulting a tax professional about since the recapture will happen regardless. For FSBO costs, here's what I experienced when I sold my rental last year: attorney fees ($800-1200), title insurance/closing costs ($1500-2500), any buyer concessions you might need to make ($2000-5000 depending on market), professional photos ($300-500), and miscellaneous marketing costs ($200-500). So you're looking at roughly $5000-10000 in costs even without an agent. In your case, if agent commission is $16K and FSBO costs are around $7K, you'd net about $9K in savings. But factor in the time investment and stress of managing everything yourself - for some people that $9K isn't worth the hassle, especially when dealing with complex tax situations on rental properties. One more tip: if you do go FSBO, consider hiring a real estate attorney just for contract review and closing coordination. It's a middle ground that gives you professional guidance on the legal aspects while still saving most of the commission.
This breakdown of FSBO costs is really helpful - thanks for the detailed numbers! The $9K net savings does seem meaningful, but you're right about the time and stress factor. I hadn't thought about hiring just an attorney for contract review as a middle ground option. One follow-up question on the depreciation piece: if we've been working with the same CPA for years who handled our rental property taxes, should they already have all the depreciation records we'd need for the recapture calculation? Or is there additional documentation we should be gathering on our own to prepare for the sale? Also wondering if anyone has experience with how buyers react to FSBO properties when it comes to negotiations. Do they typically expect bigger concessions since there's no agent commission being paid?
Your CPA should definitely have all the depreciation records from your annual tax returns, but I'd recommend gathering your own backup documentation too. Things like: original purchase price, closing statements, receipts for major improvements over the years, and copies of all Schedule E forms where depreciation was claimed. Having your own records helps verify everything matches up and catches any potential discrepancies. Regarding FSBO negotiations - in my experience, some buyers do expect larger concessions when there's no agent commission, but it varies by market. Smart buyers realize they're not necessarily entitled to your commission savings, but they might push harder on inspection repairs or closing cost assistance. The key is pricing competitively from the start and being prepared to justify your asking price with comparable sales data. One thing that helped me was getting a pre-listing inspection so I could address major issues upfront and avoid surprise repair requests during negotiations. It actually gave me more confidence in the FSBO process knowing exactly what condition the property was in.
Just wanted to add something that might be helpful for your situation - don't forget about the Section 1031 like-kind exchange option if you're considering reinvesting in another rental property. While it doesn't help if you want to cash out completely, a 1031 exchange lets you defer all capital gains and depreciation recapture taxes by rolling the proceeds into a similar investment property. The rules are pretty strict (you have 45 days to identify replacement properties and 180 days to close), but it can be a huge tax saver if you're planning to stay in the rental property business. I used this strategy when selling my first rental and it allowed me to buy a bigger property without paying any taxes on the sale. Also, regarding your FSBO approach - consider that buyers working with agents might be less likely to view your property since their agent doesn't get compensated. You might want to offer a buyer's agent commission (typically 2.5-3%) to keep those buyers in the pool, which would reduce your total savings but potentially get you more showings and better offers.
That's a really interesting point about the 1031 exchange! I hadn't considered that option since we were mainly thinking about cashing out, but it could be worth exploring if we find another good investment property. The timeline does sound pretty tight though - 45 days to identify and 180 to close seems like it could be stressful, especially if we're doing FSBO and managing everything ourselves. Your point about offering buyer's agent commission is smart too. I was so focused on saving the full commission that I didn't think about how it might limit our buyer pool. Offering 2.5% to buyer's agents while still saving 2.5-3% on the listing side could be a good compromise. Do you know if that buyer's agent commission would still count as a deductible selling expense for capital gains purposes? Also curious - when you did your 1031 exchange, did you work with a qualified intermediary or handle it yourself? The rules sound complex enough that professional help might be worth it.
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I'm confused about something similar - if I take money from my Roth IRA that I originally contributed (not earnings), do I still have to report it on my taxes even if I know it's not taxable?
Yes, you absolutely still need to report it! The 1099-R will be reported to the IRS regardless, so if you don't include it on your return, you'll likely get a notice from them. Report it on Form 1040 and then use Form 8606 to show that it's a nontaxable distribution.
The blank Box 2a on your 1099-R is actually a good sign - it likely means TIAA determined the distribution wasn't taxable, which is why they didn't withhold anything this time. However, you absolutely still need to report this on your tax return even if no taxes are owed. Since you mentioned this is from a rollover you did over a year ago, the key question is whether those were pre-tax or after-tax funds that you rolled over. If you rolled over from a traditional 401(k) or IRA to a Roth (a conversion), you would have paid taxes on that conversion at the time. Any distributions from those converted funds would generally be tax-free as long as it's been more than 5 years since the conversion AND you're over 59½. If the rollover was from another Roth account, then the funds maintain their original character and the 5-year clock from your original Roth IRA applies. Make sure to check Box 7 for the distribution code - that will tell you exactly how the IRS expects this to be treated. You'll likely need to file Form 8606 along with your 1040 to properly report this distribution and show why it's not taxable.
This is really helpful clarification! I'm dealing with a similar situation where I rolled over funds from a traditional 401k to a Roth IRA about 2 years ago. I remember paying taxes on the conversion at the time, but now I'm worried about taking any distributions since it hasn't been 5 years yet. Does the 5-year rule for conversions apply to the entire converted amount, or is it calculated differently if I only withdraw part of what I converted? And if I'm under 59½, would I face the 10% penalty even though I already paid income tax on the conversion?
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Anyone have recommendations for specific kWh meters that work well for EV charging? There are so many options online and I don't know which ones would be accepted by the IRS for documentation purposes.
I've been using the Emporia Energy Vue for about 8 months - it's around $150 and monitors individual circuits. Works great for tracking my work vehicle charging and shows real-time usage in their app. My accountant said the reports it generates are perfect for tax documentation.
The Shelly EM is another good option - about $100 and works with any charger. For even cheaper, you can get basic plug-in meters like Kill-A-Watt if you're using a Level 1 charger that plugs into a standard outlet.
Great question! I've been dealing with this exact situation for the past year. You're absolutely right that you can expense the electricity used for charging your work vehicle at home - it's treated just like fuel expenses for gas vehicles. A few practical tips from my experience: 1. **Meter installation is key** - I went with a Sense Energy Monitor that tracks individual circuits. It cost about $300 but has paid for itself many times over in documented deductions. 2. **Keep detailed records** - Date, time, kWh used, your electric rate, and calculated cost per charge. I use a simple Google Sheet that automatically calculates the dollar amount based on my utility's rate structure. 3. **Know your electric rate** - Many utilities have time-of-use pricing, so charging at night might be cheaper. Make sure you're using the correct rate for each charging session. 4. **Business use percentage** - Only deduct the portion that's actually business use. I keep a simple mileage log showing business vs personal trips to support my percentage. The IRS treats this the same as any other vehicle operating expense, so as long as you have good documentation, you're in solid territory. I've been claiming about $180/month in charging costs with no issues.
This is incredibly helpful, thank you! I'm curious about the Sense Energy Monitor you mentioned - does it require any special electrical work to install, or can a homeowner do it themselves? Also, when you say you keep a "simple mileage log," are you tracking every single trip or just doing periodic sampling to establish your business use percentage? I want to make sure I'm being thorough enough for potential audit purposes but also realistic about what I can maintain long-term.
Malik Thomas
Just wanted to add another perspective on documentation - I've found that taking screenshots of your insurance policy declarations page can be really helpful too. Most policies show the coverage limits for each property address, which can support your allocation method. Also, don't forget that if you have a property manager for your rental, their fees are deductible too! I see a lot of people miss that one. And if you're driving to check on the rental property for maintenance or showing it to tenants, those mileage expenses can add up over the year. The umbrella policy deduction is definitely legitimate - I've been claiming it for 4 years now with no issues. The key thing the IRS wants to see is that you're not just making up numbers, but using some logical method to split business vs personal expenses. Your 50/50 approach sounds totally reasonable for properties of similar value.
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CosmicCadet
•Great point about the insurance declarations page - that's exactly the kind of supporting documentation that makes your deduction bulletproof! I hadn't thought about using the coverage limits shown there to justify the allocation method. And you're absolutely right about those other rental deductions that people miss. The mileage one is huge - I track every trip to my rental property in a simple phone app and it adds up to several hundred dollars in deductions each year. Property management fees, repairs, maintenance supplies, even the cost of advertising for tenants - it all adds up. For anyone new to rental property taxes, I'd recommend keeping a dedicated folder (physical or digital) for all rental-related expenses throughout the year. Makes tax time so much easier when everything is organized. The umbrella insurance deduction might seem small at $600, but combined with all the other legitimate rental expenses, it really helps offset the rental income.
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Isabella Silva
I've been handling umbrella policy deductions for my rental properties for several years now, and wanted to share a few practical tips that have worked well for me. First, regarding your $1,200 premium - the 50/50 split is definitely reasonable if your properties are similar in value. But I'd suggest taking a few minutes to calculate a more precise allocation. I use a simple formula based on property values: (Rental Property Value ÷ Total Property Value) × Premium = Deductible Amount. Here's what's made my life easier for documentation: - I keep a simple Excel sheet showing my calculation method - I save screenshots of online property value estimates from 2-3 sources (Zillow, county assessor, etc.) - I print out my insurance declarations page that shows coverage amounts for each address The IRS has never questioned my method because it's consistent year after year and clearly documented. At tax time, I just pull up my spreadsheet and transfer the number to Schedule E. One thing to watch out for - if your umbrella policy also covers auto liability, make sure you're only allocating the portion that covers real estate. Your insurance agent can help clarify what percentage of the premium applies to property coverage versus auto coverage. Keep claiming what you're entitled to! Even if it "only" saves you $150-200 in taxes, that money adds up over time.
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CosmosCaptain
•This is exactly the kind of systematic approach I wish I had when I started dealing with rental property deductions! Your Excel spreadsheet method sounds bulletproof - I've been doing everything manually and it's such a hassle each year. Quick question about the auto liability portion you mentioned - how do you figure out what percentage of the umbrella premium applies to real estate vs auto? My agent wasn't very helpful when I asked about this breakdown. Did you have to push them for specific numbers or is there a standard way insurance companies calculate this? Also love the tip about using multiple property value sources. I've been relying just on county assessor values but adding Zillow and maybe Redfin estimates would definitely make the documentation more robust. Thanks for sharing your real-world experience with this!
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