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James Maki

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Great question! I went through something very similar with my LLC property sale last year. Here's what I learned: you're NOT paying capital gains tax twice. The $53k gain from the property sale flows through to you and your partner based on your ownership percentages (50/50 in your case). Each of you will report $26.5k of capital gain on your personal tax returns via Schedule D and Form 8949. The key thing to understand is that your withdrawal of $26.5k isn't a separate taxable event - it's simply you taking out your share of the proceeds. Your original $15k investment becomes part of your "basis" in the LLC. When you withdraw $26.5k, you're essentially getting back your $15k investment plus your $11.5k share of the gain, but you only pay tax on the gain portion once. The LLC will issue you each a Schedule K-1 (Form 1065) showing your share of the capital gain. Make sure to also consider if you've been taking depreciation deductions on the property - if so, you'll need to account for depreciation recapture on Form 4797, which gets taxed at 25% rather than the typical capital gains rates.

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This is really helpful! I'm new to LLC property investing and was worried I might be missing something important. Quick follow-up question - when you mention the Schedule K-1 from Form 1065, does the LLC automatically file that partnership return, or is that something we need to handle ourselves? And how does the timing work - do we need to wait for the K-1 before filing our personal returns?

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@09d6b59cb75f Yes, the LLC needs to file Form 1065 (Partnership Return) by March 15th (or October 15th if you file an extension). This isn't automatic - someone needs to prepare and file it, usually whoever handles the LLC's books or your accountant. The LLC then provides each member with their Schedule K-1 by the same deadline. You'll definitely want to wait for your K-1 before filing your personal return, as it contains the specific information you need to report your share of the capital gain correctly. The K-1 will show not just the gain amount, but also important details like your beginning and ending basis in the LLC, which affects how distributions are taxed. Many people end up filing extensions on their personal returns when they're waiting for K-1s from business entities.

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One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is making sure your LLC operating agreement is clear about how property sale proceeds are distributed. We had a similar situation where the operating agreement wasn't specific about whether distributions would be proportional to ownership or based on capital contributions, which created some confusion at tax time. Also, if you're planning to reinvest in another property, you might want to look into a 1031 like-kind exchange for future sales. While it's too late for this transaction, it could help you defer capital gains taxes on future property sales if done correctly. The exchange needs to be structured before the sale closes, so it's something to consider for your next investment property. Make sure to keep detailed records of all your costs related to the sale (real estate commissions, legal fees, closing costs, etc.) as these can be added to your cost basis and reduce your taxable gain. Every dollar counts when you're dealing with capital gains!

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Dylan Wright

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This is really solid advice about the operating agreement! I learned this the hard way on my first LLC property deal. Our agreement was vague about distribution methodology and we ended up having to amend it mid-transaction, which delayed our closing and cost extra legal fees. Quick question about the 1031 exchanges - do they work the same way when the property is owned through an LLC versus individual ownership? I've heard there can be complications with the "same taxpayer" requirement when you're dealing with pass-through entities. And what about the timing requirements - is it still the strict 45/180 day rules even with LLC ownership? Also, great point about tracking all sale-related expenses. Don't forget about any capital improvements made during ownership too - those can also increase your basis and reduce the taxable gain. Things like new roofs, HVAC systems, major renovations, etc.

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How to correctly understand the IRS Tax Withholding Estimator results for 2025?

I've been frustrated the past couple years because my spouse and I end up owing money when we file taxes. Trying to avoid that headache for next year. So yesterday I decided to try the IRS Tax Withholding Estimator, but now I'm completely confused by the results it's giving me. At the top of the results page, it shows our expected withholding, expected tax obligation, and then calculates how much we'll owe: Projected amount owed $2,145 That seems pretty accurate since we owed about $2,100 this year, so I'm guessing the estimator is working correctly there. What I can't figure out is that the estimator recommends I put **$5,580** on Step 4(a) Other Income (not from jobs) on my W4, and then enter **$216** on Step 4(c) Extra withholding. I get paid every two weeks (26 paychecks annually). By my calculations, $216 Ɨ 26 = $5,616 in extra withholding for the year. How does that make sense? If we're projected to owe an additional $2,145 beyond what's already withheld, why would we need to withhold an extra $5,616 to cover a $2,145 shortfall? A couple things that might matter: 1. I entered our income as gross amounts from our payroll portal (the estimator wasn't super clear about this) 2. My spouse has health insurance premiums deducted from each check, while I contribute to an HSA plus have vision and dental deductions (but no health insurance). It looks like the $5,580 they want me to list on 4a of the W4 might actually be related to our HSA and health insurance contributions. But why would that be "additional"? Those amounts were already included in the gross income figures I entered earlier in the estimator. Should I be entering our income MINUS health insurance and HSA contributions to get this to make sense?

Diego Fisher

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I've been a tax preparer for over 15 years, and I can tell you that the IRS Withholding Estimator is one of the most frustrating tools out there, especially for married couples with pre-tax deductions like HSAs and health insurance. The core issue you're experiencing is that the estimator treats Step 4(a) as "additional income that needs to be taxed" rather than "income adjustments." When you entered your gross wages including pre-tax deductions, the estimator didn't realize those HSA and health insurance amounts aren't actually taxable income. Here's what I recommend to my clients in your situation: 1. **Use the simple approach**: Take your shortfall from last year ($2,145), add a small buffer (maybe $300), and divide by your remaining paychecks. Put that amount on Step 4(c) for extra withholding. 2. **Ignore Step 4(a) completely** for your situation - it's causing more confusion than help. 3. **Set a calendar reminder** for January to adjust your W-4 back down to a "maintenance" level once you've caught up on this year's shortfall. The estimator works better for simpler tax situations, but with multiple jobs, HSAs, and various pre-tax deductions, the old-fashioned math approach is often more reliable and definitely less stressful!

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Ravi Kapoor

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Thank you so much for this professional perspective! As someone new to navigating tax withholding, it's reassuring to hear from an actual tax preparer that the IRS tool is genuinely problematic and not just user error on my part. Your simple approach makes perfect sense - I think I was overthinking it by trying to make the estimator work "correctly" when clearly it's not designed for situations like mine. The math approach of taking last year's shortfall plus a buffer and spreading it across remaining paychecks is so much cleaner. One quick question: when you say "maintenance level" for January, do you mean going back to zero extra withholding, or should there typically be some ongoing extra amount to prevent the same problem next year?

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For the "maintenance level," it depends on whether the underlying issue that caused your shortfall gets resolved. If your withholding was off because of the same factors (HSA contributions, health insurance premiums, etc.), you'll likely need some ongoing extra withholding, but much less than the "catch-up" amount. A good rule of thumb: take your annual shortfall (like that $2,145) and divide by all 26 paychecks for the following year. So you'd need about $83 per paycheck in extra withholding as your baseline maintenance amount. Then the catch-up amount for the remainder of this year would be higher to make up for the months you've already under-withheld. This way you're not scrambling to fix the same problem every year!

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Miguel Diaz

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This is such a common problem! I went through the exact same frustration last year. The IRS Withholding Estimator really struggles with married couples who have pre-tax deductions. What worked for me was completely ignoring the estimator's Step 4(a) recommendation and going with the simple math approach several others have mentioned. I took what we owed last year ($1,800 in our case), added about $200 as a buffer, and divided by our remaining paychecks. The key thing I learned is that Step 4(a) is meant for income that ISN'T being withheld from (like freelance work or investment income), not for adjusting calculations around pre-tax deductions. When you put your HSA and health insurance amounts there, you're essentially telling your employer "please withhold taxes on this additional income" which is the opposite of what you want. Since switching to just using Step 4(c) for extra withholding, our tax situation has been much more predictable. No more surprises in April!

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This is exactly the kind of real-world experience that's so helpful! It's reassuring to hear from someone who went through the same confusion and found a solution that actually works. I think I was getting too caught up in trying to make the IRS tool give me "correct" results instead of just solving the actual problem - which is making sure we don't owe money next April. The simple math approach you and others have described makes so much more sense than trying to decode what the estimator thinks it's doing with Step 4(a). Your point about Step 4(a) being for income that ISN'T being withheld from is the lightbulb moment for me. I was thinking of it as some kind of adjustment field, but it's actually telling them to tax me on additional income. No wonder the numbers were so crazy! Thanks for sharing your success with this approach - definitely gives me confidence to just ignore the estimator and go with the straightforward math solution.

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Axel Far

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I've been going through this same nightmare for the past 6 weeks! The "Audit Status Unavailable" error seems to be a widespread issue that the IRS isn't acknowledging publicly. What's worked for me so far is a multi-pronged approach: I filed Form 911 with TAS (which @Sofia Perez mentioned), started calling the examination department number directly from my audit letter instead of the main line, and I'm also documenting everything with screenshots like @Jamal Washington suggested. The examination department has actually been more responsive - got through twice in the past week, though they couldn't access my status immediately either. One thing I learned is that they're experiencing "system modernization delays" (their words) that are affecting audit status displays specifically. The rep told me to expect 30-45 more days for the online systems to catch up, which is frustrating but at least gives a timeline. Also trying the certified letter approach that @Anastasia Kozlov mentioned as backup. Hang in there everyone - this seems to be a known issue they're working on, even if they're not great at communicating about it!

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Rajan Walker

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@Axel Far Thanks for the update on the system "modernization delays -" that actually explains a lot! It s'frustrating that they re'not being more transparent about these issues publicly. The 30-45 day timeline is helpful to know even though it sucks to wait that long. I m'definitely going to try calling the examination department number directly like you did. Did they give you any kind of case reference number or anything to track your inquiry? Also curious if the TAS Form 911 route has gotten any response yet - I just submitted mine yesterday. Really appreciate everyone sharing their progress on this thread, makes me feel less crazy knowing it s'a widespread system issue and not just me!

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Luca Russo

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This thread has been incredibly helpful! I'm dealing with the exact same "Audit Status Unavailable" error and it's been 3 weeks since I got my audit letter. Reading everyone's experiences makes me realize this is a much bigger system issue than I thought. I'm definitely going to try the TAS Form 911 route and look for my local office - had no idea those even existed. Also going to call the examination department number directly from my letter instead of wasting more time with the main IRS line. The "system modernization delays" explanation from @Axel Far actually makes sense, even though it's frustrating. Thanks everyone for sharing your solutions and keeping each other updated - this is way more helpful than anything I found on the actual IRS website! Will report back if any of these approaches work for me.

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Great thread everyone! As someone who's been dealing with PFIC reporting for my international portfolio, I wanted to add a few practical tips that have helped me streamline the process: 1. **Document everything throughout the year** - Don't wait until tax season to gather your PFIC information. I keep a simple folder with quarterly statements and note any distributions immediately. 2. **Currency conversion timing matters** - Make sure you're using the correct exchange rates for the specific dates (January 1st for beginning values, December 31st for ending values). The IRS has specific guidance on which rates to use. 3. **Consider the QEF election alternative** - While MTM is simpler for most people, if your foreign fund provides the necessary annual information statements, the QEF election might be more tax-efficient long-term, especially for funds you plan to hold for many years. 4. **State tax implications** - Don't forget that some states don't conform to federal PFIC elections, which can create additional complexity in your state returns. For those struggling with the technical aspects, the key is really having accurate beginning and ending values. Everything else on Form 8621 flows from those numbers. And yes, you can definitely e-file - I've done it successfully with both TaxAct and Drake Tax for several years now.

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This is such valuable practical advice, thank you! I'm particularly interested in your point about state tax implications - I hadn't even considered that. I'm in California and have been assuming my state return would just follow whatever I do on the federal level. Can you elaborate on what "states don't conform to federal PFIC elections" actually means in practice? Also, your tip about currency conversion timing is spot on. I made an error last year using year-end rates for everything instead of the specific dates, and it caused a discrepancy that I had to amend. The IRS Publication 538 has the official exchange rates if anyone needs them, but I've found the Federal Reserve's historical data is often easier to navigate for the exact dates you need. One thing I'd add to your excellent list - if you're working with a tax preparer, make sure they actually understand PFIC reporting. I went through two different preparers who claimed they could handle it but clearly didn't understand the nuances. The specialized knowledge required really makes a difference in getting it right the first time.

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This has been such a helpful thread! I'm dealing with a similar situation where I have PFICs in both taxable and retirement accounts. Just wanted to confirm what @Andre Dupont mentioned earlier - PFICs held in traditional IRAs, Roth IRAs, and 401(k)s are indeed exempt from Form 8621 reporting requirements under IRC Section 1298(f). This exemption can save a lot of headaches if you're able to hold your foreign investments in retirement accounts instead of taxable accounts. For those who are stuck with taxable PFIC holdings, I've found that keeping a simple annual calendar reminder to capture January 1st and December 31st values makes the whole process much smoother. I set alerts to screenshot the relevant fund pages on those specific dates, which eliminates the scramble to find historical data later. One last tip - if you're considering selling your PFIC investments to avoid the reporting complexity (as @AstroAdventurer mentioned), be aware that you'll still need to file Form 8621 for the year you sell, and you might face some additional complications if you haven't been compliant with PFIC reporting in previous years. Sometimes it's worth getting everything properly reported first before making the decision to divest.

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Layla Mendes

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This is exactly the kind of comprehensive information I wish I'd had when I first discovered my foreign index funds were PFICs! The retirement account exemption is such a game-changer - I've been considering rolling some of my taxable investments into my IRA specifically to avoid the annual Form 8621 headache. Your point about the calendar reminders is brilliant and something I'm definitely going to implement. I've been trying to reconstruct historical values from old screenshots and brokerage statements, which is incredibly time-consuming and error-prone. One question about the sale complications you mentioned - if someone has been non-compliant with PFIC reporting in previous years, is there a way to catch up without facing massive penalties? I'm asking for a friend who may have unknowingly held PFICs for a couple years before realizing the reporting requirements. The IRS penalty structure for unreported PFICs seems pretty severe, and I'm wondering if there are any relief procedures available for unintentional non-compliance.

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Ryan Young

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I'm going through something similar but with adoption. We paid fees this year but won't finalize until next year. My tax guy said to keep ALL receipts because some expenses like this can be rolled into the following year's taxes when the child is actually your dependent. Not sure if it's the same for birth, but worth asking a professional.

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Sophia Clark

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There's actually a big difference between adoption expenses and childcare expenses for tax purposes. The adoption tax credit works differently and allows you to claim qualified adoption expenses paid before the adoption is finalized. The childcare credit doesn't have similar provisions - it requires the dependent to exist when the care is provided.

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I'm dealing with a similar situation and found it helpful to think about this in terms of timing and what the IRS actually considers "care." The key issue is that the Child and Dependent Care Credit requires three things: 1) you have a qualifying dependent, 2) care was actually provided, and 3) you paid for that care. Even though you're paying now, no actual care is being provided until your baby arrives. The deposit is essentially reserving future care, not purchasing current care. It's frustrating because you're out the money now, but the IRS timing rules are pretty strict. One thing that might help - ask your daycare how they'll handle that deposit once your baby starts. If they apply it directly to your first month's payment rather than keeping it as a separate "holding fee," it'll be cleaner to claim on your 2025 taxes. Some daycares are flexible about restructuring these payments if you explain the tax situation. Also worth noting that if your baby arrives before December 31st (even on New Year's Eve!), you can claim them as a dependent for the full 2024 tax year, which opens up other credits like the Child Tax Credit, just not the childcare credit for pre-birth expenses.

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This is really helpful clarification! I hadn't thought about asking the daycare to restructure how they handle the deposit. That's a great practical tip that could make the 2025 tax filing much cleaner. Your point about the three requirements for the credit makes it crystal clear why the timing doesn't work for 2024. I think I was getting confused between paying for care versus care actually being provided - thanks for breaking that down so clearly. Fingers crossed our little guy stays put until January as planned, but it's good to know that if he decides to make an early appearance, we'd at least get the Child Tax Credit for this year!

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