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I faced this exact issue when selling my construction business. The varying interest rates (4.5% year 1, 7% years 2-5) triggered OID treatment. The practical impact was: 1) I had to report interest income based on a constant yield calculation rather than actual cash received 2) Had to file Form 1099-OID annually 3) Buyer got interest deductions based on the same constant yield method My mistake was not consulting a tax specialist BEFORE structuring the deal. Could have avoided major hassle with proper planning. So yeah, your CPA is probably right.
Did you have to amend prior year returns? I'm in year 3 of a similar arrangement and just realized we might have this issue.
Your CPA is absolutely correct about the OID treatment. I went through this same situation when I sold my tech consulting firm with a similar rate structure (6% first two years, then 9% for the remaining three years). The key issue isn't whether you're receiving cash payments - it's that the IRS views varying interest rates as creating an "imputed discount" at issuance. Even though you negotiated what seemed like a fair deal, the tax code requires you to calculate interest income using the constant yield method across the entire note term. What this means practically: you'll report more interest income in early years than you actually receive in cash, and less in later years when the rate jumps to 8%. The total interest over the life of the note stays the same, but the timing of when you report it to the IRS changes. I'd strongly recommend asking your CPA to walk you through the specific OID calculations for your $3.8M note so you can see exactly how much additional income you'll need to report each year. This will help with cash flow planning since you'll owe taxes on interest income you haven't actually received yet.
I'm in a similar situation and went down this rabbit hole last year. Make sure to check if your partnership is part of a "controlled group" with any other business entities you own or operate. If so, there are additional rules that might require your plans to be combined for testing and contribution limit purposes. The IRS has incredibly complex rules around this stuff, and the penalties for getting it wrong can be steep. If you have significant assets involved, it might be worth paying for a consultation with an employee benefits attorney who specializes in retirement plans. General tax preparers often don't have deep expertise in these niche retirement plan rules.
What exactly is a "controlled group"? Never heard this term before but sounds important. Is this something that would appear on my partnership paperwork somewhere?
A "controlled group" refers to businesses that are related through common ownership or control, even if they're separate legal entities. The IRS treats them as one employer for retirement plan purposes. For example, if you own 80% or more of multiple businesses, or if there's a chain of ownership connecting different entities, they might be considered a controlled group. This matters because if your partnership is part of a controlled group, you might not be able to have separate retirement plans - they could be required to operate as one combined plan with shared contribution limits and non-discrimination testing. You wouldn't necessarily see this labeled on your partnership paperwork, but it would depend on the ownership structure of your partnership and any other business interests you or the other partners have. @def6371cc16b is absolutely right about consulting with a specialist if you have significant money involved. The controlled group rules are some of the most complex in retirement plan law.
As someone who went through a similar situation as a limited partner, I can confirm that the partnership income alone typically won't qualify you for a solo retirement account. However, I noticed you mentioned collecting quarterly profit distributions - make sure to distinguish between your distributive share of partnership profits (passive income) and any guaranteed payments for services you might receive. If you do any work FOR the partnership that generates guaranteed payments (shown separately on your K-1), that income could potentially qualify as self-employment income for retirement plan purposes. Even something like attending partner meetings or providing strategic input might be structured as guaranteed payments rather than just profit sharing. One other option to consider: if your current 401k plan allows it, you might be able to make after-tax contributions beyond the normal limits and then do in-service distributions or conversions to a Roth. This could help you save more within your existing plan structure without needing to set up separate accounts. Worth checking with your plan administrator about these "mega backdoor Roth" strategies.
Make sure your daughter is actually keeping good records going forward! My son learned this lesson the hard way last year with his programming freelance work. The IRS doesn't play around with self-employment income, even for teens. Have her track: - Date of each job - Client name - Amount paid - Method of payment (cash, Venmo, etc) - Any expenses related to the business
Do you use any particular app for tracking this stuff? My daughter just takes pictures of receipts with her phone but they end up lost in her camera roll mixed with 10,000 tiktok screenshots lol
We use QuickBooks Self-Employed for my daughter's pet sitting business - it's like $15/month but totally worth it. She can snap photos of receipts right in the app and it automatically categorizes them. Plus it tracks mileage when she drives to clients' houses, which adds up to decent deductions. For the simpler/free route, even just a basic spreadsheet or notes app works if she's disciplined about updating it after each job. The key is making it a habit - like she can't get paid until she logs the job details first!
Just wanted to add a quick tip for anyone dealing with this situation - make sure to check if your state has any additional requirements for teen self-employment income. Some states have their own rules about business licenses or permits, even for informal businesses like dog sitting. Also, don't forget that the Roth IRA contribution can actually be a great teaching moment! Your daughter can see how her earned income directly enables her to start building retirement savings early. At 16, even a $2,700 contribution has decades to grow - that could be worth over $100,000 by retirement age with compound interest. One more thing - if she plans to continue the dog sitting business, consider having her set aside about 20-25% of her income for taxes (federal SE tax plus any state taxes). This will help avoid any surprises next year!
This is such great advice about setting aside money for taxes! I wish someone had told me this when I started doing odd jobs as a teen. I'm now helping my nephew with his tutoring income and we opened a separate savings account just for his tax money. One question - do you know if there's a minimum age for contributing to a Roth IRA? My nephew is only 14 but he's already making decent money from tutoring younger kids in math. I'd love to help him get started with retirement savings early if possible. Also, the point about state requirements is really important. We're in California and I had no idea there might be additional rules to consider. Better to check now before he gets too established in his tutoring business!
This thread has been incredibly helpful! As someone who works with multiple veteran organizations, I want to emphasize the importance of keeping detailed volunteer hour logs for each gaming activity. The IRS requires documentation showing that at least 85% of the work is performed by volunteers to qualify for the exception. One practical tip: create separate volunteer sign-in sheets for each activity (bingo, pull tabs, raffles) and track both setup/breakdown time and actual operation time. Many organizations only track the time during the actual games, but setup and cleanup count toward your volunteer percentage too. Also, be careful about "volunteers" who receive regular compensation in other forms - like free meals, merchandise, or reduced membership dues. The IRS may not consider these true volunteers for the 85% calculation. Document everything clearly because if you ever face an examination, the burden of proof is on your organization to demonstrate compliance.
This is exactly what we needed to hear! Our VFW has been pretty casual about tracking volunteer hours - we just had people sign in when they showed up. I didn't realize setup and breakdown time counted toward the 85% threshold. We've been potentially shorting ourselves on documentation that could keep us exempt. The point about "volunteers" getting compensation is eye-opening too. Our regular bingo caller gets free dinner every week - I wonder if that disqualifies him from counting toward our volunteer percentage? We should probably review our practices before our next board meeting. Thanks for the practical advice on separate sign-in sheets. That seems like such a simple change that could make a huge difference if we ever get audited.
Great discussion everyone! As a newcomer here, I'm dealing with similar issues at our local DAV chapter. We've been running monthly meat raffles and quarterly Vegas nights, and I'm trying to figure out if we need to file Form 990-T for any of this. Reading through all your comments, it sounds like I need to get serious about documentation. We've been pretty informal - just having the same volunteers show up without really tracking hours or separating activities. The fragmentation rule that CyberNinja mentioned is news to me - I thought we could just lump everything together as "fundraising activities." One question: if we have a mix of paid bartender service during our Vegas nights (for liability reasons), but everything else is volunteers, does that automatically disqualify us from the volunteer labor exception for that entire event? Or can we separate out just the gaming portions that are run by volunteers? Also wondering if anyone has experience with whether the "members and guests only" restriction actually provides any protection, or if it's really just about the volunteer threshold as several of you have indicated.
Steven Adams
Im in a similar situation and my accountant told me that even if donations dont help with federal taxes with standard deduction, it's still important to TRACK THEM for state taxes. My state lets you deduct charitable contributions even when taking the standard deduction on federal!!!
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Alice Fleming
ā¢Which state are you in? I'm in California and would love if this is true here too!
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Javier Mendoza
Just want to add my experience here - I was in the exact same situation last year with a pile of Goodwill receipts! After doing the math, our itemized deductions (including about $800 in donations) only came to around $22,000, which was well below the standard deduction threshold. One thing I learned though is to definitely keep those receipts anyway. Even if they don't help this year, your situation might change next year - maybe you'll have higher medical expenses, buy a house with mortgage interest, or have other major deductible expenses. Plus some people's donation amounts really add up over time. Also worth noting - if you donated any single items worth over $500 (like electronics or furniture), you might need Form 8283 regardless of whether you itemize. The IRS can be picky about documentation for higher-value donations.
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Gemma Andrews
ā¢Great point about keeping the receipts for future years! I hadn't thought about how our situation might change. Quick question - when you mention the $500 threshold for Form 8283, is that per individual item or total donations? I donated some electronics that might have been worth more than $500 individually but I'm not sure how to value them properly.
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