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Ask the community...

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Kaiya Rivera

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Has anyone dealt with this for an installment sale? I'm selling my rental property with owner financing (buyer paying me over 10 years), and I'm confused about how the bulk sales withholding works in this case. Do they withhold from each payment I receive or just the down payment?

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For installment sales, most states apply the withholding requirement only to the payments you receive in the current tax year. So they would withhold from your down payment and any principal payments received before December 31st. The tricky part is that you'll need to continue dealing with withholding in future years as you receive additional payments. Some states have special installment sale forms that you file annually. Others require the buyer to withhold from each payment unless you get an exemption certificate. It's definitely more complicated than a standard sale, and you might want to consult with a tax professional who specializes in installment sales.

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Amina Bah

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Just wanted to add something that might help others - timing is crucial with bulk sales withholding exemptions. I learned this the hard way when selling my duplex in Illinois last year. Most states require you to submit exemption applications 10-30 days before your scheduled closing date. I waited until 5 days before closing to apply and my exemption was still being processed when we were supposed to close. We had to delay the closing by two weeks, which cost me extra carrying costs and almost killed the deal when the buyer got frustrated. The lesson: start the exemption process as soon as you have a signed purchase agreement, not when you're getting close to closing. Even if you think you might not qualify for an exemption, it's worth applying early because the worst case is they deny it and you're back to the standard withholding anyway. Also, some states have emergency or expedited processing for exemptions if you're close to closing, but they usually charge extra fees (mine was $150 for expedited processing in Illinois). Much better to plan ahead!

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GalacticGuru

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Just to share my experience - I run a Mexican manufacturing company that sells products to US distributors. We file both forms every year. The 1120-F reports our US-connected income (even though we claim it's exempt under the treaty), and the F8833 specifically details which treaty articles we're relying on. Our tax advisor said the 1120-F is mandatory regardless of treaty benefits, while F8833 is what actually substantiates our treaty position. Last year we almost didn't file F8833 thinking it was unnecessary paperwork, but then learned about the $10,000 penalty. Not worth the risk!

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How complicated is the F8833 to fill out? Is it something a non-tax expert could handle, or should I definitely hire a professional?

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GalacticGuru

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Form F8833 itself isn't particularly complex - it's basically a disclosure form where you identify the treaty and articles you're relying on, along with a brief explanation of your position. The challenge isn't completing the form but knowing exactly which treaty provisions apply to your situation. For simple scenarios (like claiming you don't have a permanent establishment), you might be able to handle it yourself. But international tax can get complex quickly. I'd recommend at least having a consultation with a tax professional who specializes in international taxation to ensure you're citing the correct treaty provisions. A mistake here could trigger an audit, which would cost far more than professional assistance upfront.

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Sean Murphy

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As someone who's dealt with similar international tax complexities, I want to emphasize the importance of getting this right from the start. The interaction between Forms 1120-F and 8833 can be tricky, especially when you're trying to claim treaty benefits. From my experience with foreign corporations doing business with US clients, here's what I've learned: even if you believe you're fully exempt under the Singapore-US treaty, filing both forms creates a clear paper trail that demonstrates compliance and good faith. The 1120-F establishes your filing history and starts the statute of limitations clock, while the 8833 provides the specific legal justification for your treaty position. One thing to watch out for - make sure you understand the "permanent establishment" rules under the current treaty. With digital services and remote work becoming more common, the definition of what constitutes a PE has been evolving. If any of your consulting work involves ongoing projects or regular clients, you'll want to carefully analyze whether this creates a taxable presence in the US. I'd strongly recommend getting professional guidance for at least your first filing to establish the correct approach, then you might be able to handle subsequent years yourself once the pattern is established.

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Mei Chen

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This is really helpful advice, especially about the evolving permanent establishment rules. I'm new to this community and dealing with similar issues as a Canadian freelancer working with US tech companies. One question - when you mention "establishing the correct approach" for the first filing, how do you evaluate whether a tax professional truly understands these international treaty nuances? I've had consultations with a few CPAs locally, but I get the sense that international tax isn't really their specialty, even though they claim to handle it. Also, are there specific red flags in the PE analysis for consulting work? I have one client where I've been doing ongoing monthly strategy work for about 18 months now, which sounds like it might cross into that "regular clients" territory you mentioned.

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Quick tip: Download the Stride app to track your mileage automatically. I drive for multiple apps and it's been a lifesaver. Just hit "start work" when you begin and "end work" when you're done. At tax time, it gives you a report with all your business miles and the deduction amount.

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Diego Chavez

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Does it drain your battery? I tried another mileage app and it killed my phone within a few hours.

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I haven't noticed any significant battery drain. It uses your phone's GPS but seems pretty efficient about it. I can usually go a full 8-hour shift with about 25-30% battery use from the app. Much better than the other ones I tried before. I keep my phone plugged in while driving anyway, so it's never been an issue. The accuracy is really good too - it doesn't count small movements when I'm parked waiting for orders.

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I totally understand the frustration! I went through the same confusion with my gig work taxes last year. Here's what I learned that might help: Your W-2 income and 1099 gig work are reported separately - don't try to combine them. The W-2 goes on the main 1040 form, and your gig income goes on Schedule C where you can deduct your business expenses. For your mileage, you're on the right track! You can deduct either actual vehicle expenses OR the standard mileage rate (currently $0.655 per mile for 2023). Since you tracked 15,600 miles, that's about $10,218 in deductions, which is substantial. Don't stress too much about making mistakes - the IRS typically sends letters first if there are issues, not immediate bank account seizures. They actually want to help you get it right. One thing that saved me: keep detailed records of everything. Besides mileage, you might be able to deduct things like phone bills (business portion), car washes, parking fees, and even some supplies. The key is having documentation. Have you considered using tax software specifically designed for gig workers? It can walk you through Schedule C step-by-step and make sure you don't miss any deductions. Much less stressful than trying to figure out the forms manually!

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Ravi Sharma

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This is really helpful, Jessica! I'm curious about the phone bill deduction you mentioned. How do you calculate the "business portion" of your phone bill? Is it based on the percentage of time you're actively driving for gig work, or do you use some other method? Also, when you say "supplies," what kinds of things qualify? I keep napkins and phone chargers in my car for gig work - would those count as deductible business expenses?

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Mei Chen

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Just a heads up - if you use payment apps like Venmo, PayPal, Cash App, etc. to receive payments, new rules require them to send 1099-K forms if you receive over $5,000 in a calendar year. This was supposed to be $600 but they increased the threshold again. Keep track of these payments yourself rather than relying on the apps to report correctly!

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Actually this is outdated info. The IRS delayed the $600 threshold again for 2024 taxes (filed in 2025). The threshold is still $20,000 AND 200 transactions for now. They keep pushing back implementing the lower threshold.

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Great advice from everyone here! One additional thing to consider - since you're dealing with potentially sensitive content, you might want to think about business structure down the road. While you can definitely start as a sole proprietor (which is what you are by default), if your income grows significantly, you might want to consider forming an LLC for liability protection and potential tax benefits. Also, make sure you're keeping digital copies of ALL your records - income receipts, expense receipts, bank statements showing business transactions, etc. The IRS can audit up to 3 years back (longer in some cases), so having organized digital records will save you major headaches if that ever happens. I use a simple spreadsheet but there are also apps like QuickBooks Self-Employed that can help track everything automatically by linking to your bank accounts and categorizing transactions. One last tip: set aside 25-30% of your income in a separate savings account for taxes. This covers both income tax and self-employment tax. It's better to save too much and get a refund than to owe money you don't have come tax time!

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Don't forget about foreign stocks if your dad had any! My mother inherited some Canadian company stocks from my father, and there were special rules about foreign securities that almost caused us to miss out on significant tax advantages. The step-up basis applies, but there can be currency conversion considerations too. The broker should be handling this, but it's worth specifically asking how they're determining the stepped-up basis for any foreign investments. In our case, they initially only adjusted for the stock price change but missed the currency fluctuation component.

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This is a great point. We had the same issue with some Japanese stocks in my grandfather's portfolio. The currency exchange rate on the date of death versus the purchase date had a huge impact on the actual gain/loss calculation. The brokerage completely overlooked this until we specifically brought it up.

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I'm sorry for your loss, Aisha. Going through this process while grieving is incredibly difficult, and I can relate to feeling overwhelmed by all the financial details. One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is the importance of getting multiple copies of the death certificate from the funeral home or vital records office. Each brokerage will likely want an original or certified copy, and if your father had accounts at several firms, you'll need quite a few. I learned this the hard way when we had to wait weeks for additional copies while the estate settlement was delayed. Also, keep detailed records of everything - dates you contacted each brokerage, names of representatives you spoke with, and any reference numbers they give you. Some brokerages are much faster at processing these requests than others, and having good documentation helps if you need to follow up or if there are any discrepancies later. The step-up basis will definitely help reduce future tax burdens when your mom eventually sells any of these investments, so it's worth taking the time to get it done properly. Wishing you and your family the best as you navigate this difficult time.

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Thank you for mentioning the multiple death certificates - that's such practical advice that I wouldn't have thought of ahead of time. I'm already feeling overwhelmed by the paperwork aspect of everything, so knowing to get extra copies upfront will save us from delays later. The record-keeping tip is really valuable too. With everything else going on, it's easy to forget who you talked to and when. I'm going to start a simple spreadsheet to track all our communications with the different brokerages. I really appreciate everyone's help in this thread. There are so many details about the step-up basis process that I never would have known to ask about. It's reassuring to know that others have successfully navigated this and that there are resources available when we need more specific guidance.

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