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Ask the community...

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Laura Lopez

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Has anyone been able to qualify as a Real Estate Professional to get around these passive loss limitations? I'm trying to figure out if it's possible with my situation. I work full-time (about 2,000 hours per year) but also spend a ton of time managing my properties (maybe 15-20 hours per week).

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I qualified as a Real Estate Professional last year. The rules are super strict - you need 750+ hours in real estate activities AND more hours in real estate than any other work. With a full-time job at 2,000 hours, you'd need to work MORE than 2,000 hours on your properties, which sounds nearly impossible unless you quit your job or have a very unique situation. Also be aware that the IRS heavily scrutinizes Real Estate Professional claims. You need extremely detailed time logs showing exactly what you did each day related to your properties. I keep a daily log with dates, times, descriptions of activities, which properties, etc. Without this documentation, you're almost guaranteed to lose if audited.

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Laura Lopez

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That's really helpful, thanks! Sounds like Real Estate Professional status isn't realistic with my full-time job. 2,000+ hours on properties would be like working two full-time jobs. Guess I'll focus on eventually generating some passive income to use up these losses instead. I appreciate the info about the documentation requirements too - I definitely wouldn't have tracked my time thoroughly enough.

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Yuki Ito

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I went through the exact same confusion with Form 8582 when I first started with rental properties! Those "unallowed losses" basically mean your rental losses are suspended because of the passive activity loss rules. Here's what's happening: If your modified adjusted gross income (MAGI) is over $150,000, you generally can't use rental property losses to offset your regular income like wages. The losses aren't gone forever though - they carry forward indefinitely until you either have passive income to offset them against, or you sell the property. There's a potential exception if your MAGI is under $100,000 and you actively participate in managing your rentals - then you can deduct up to $25,000 in losses against other income. But based on your situation with 4 properties generating losses in your first year, I'm guessing your income might be above that threshold. The good news is those suspended losses will eventually be useful when you sell the properties or if you generate passive income from other sources. Keep good records of the amounts each year - you'll need them later!

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Aidan Hudson

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This is exactly the explanation I needed! I was getting so frustrated thinking my losses were just disappearing into thin air. So if I understand correctly, since I have 4 properties all operating at losses, those losses are just sitting there waiting until I either sell a property or find some way to generate passive income? One follow-up question - when you say "actively participate," does that include things like screening tenants, approving major repairs, and setting rental rates? I do all of that myself even though I have a property management company handling the day-to-day maintenance calls. I'm not sure what my exact MAGI is but I'm probably somewhere in that gray area around the thresholds.

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Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, but has anyone claimed the credit for a used EV or PHEV? I'm looking at a 2022 Chevy Bolt and wondering if I can get any tax benefits for buying used instead of new?

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Diego Flores

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Yes, there is a separate credit for used clean vehicles! It's up to 30% of the sale price or $4,000, whichever is less. To qualify: - The vehicle must be at least 2 years old - Price must be $25,000 or less - It must be the first transfer of the used vehicle since August 16, 2022 - You must buy from a dealer (not private party) - There are income limits ($75,000 for single filers, $112,500 for head of household, $150,000 for joint) - You can only claim this credit once every 3 years A 2022 Bolt would qualify if the price is under $25,000, but double-check all the other requirements too!

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Thanks everyone for all the detailed responses! This has been super helpful. Just to summarize what I've learned for anyone else in a similar situation: 1. Regular hybrids (like a standard Prius) DON'T qualify - only plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) do 2. PHEVs need at least 7 kWh battery capacity to qualify 3. The credit amount varies by vehicle due to battery sourcing requirements - could be $3,750 or $7,500 4. You can either claim it on your taxes OR get it as an immediate discount at the dealership 5. Always verify with the IRS list rather than just trusting what dealers tell you I'm definitely going to check out that IRS qualified vehicles list before I go shopping this weekend. Sounds like I need to focus on plug-in hybrids specifically, not regular hybrids. Really appreciate everyone sharing their real experiences - way more helpful than the generic info I was finding online!

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This is such a great summary! I'm actually in the exact same boat - was looking at regular hybrids but now realize I need to focus on plug-ins if I want the tax credit. One thing I'm still curious about though - do you know if there are any state incentives that stack on top of the federal credit? I'm in California and wondering if I could potentially get even more savings beyond the federal $3,750-$7,500. Thanks for pulling all this info together in one place!

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Romeo Quest

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Great point about account types! Just to add some clarity for anyone reading - if this is a Roth IRA, the rules are different too. With Roth accounts, you can withdraw your original contributions (basis) at any time tax-free, but earnings withdrawals before age 59½ may be subject to taxes and penalties. For taxable accounts like the original poster seems to be describing, the proportional method mentioned earlier is typically the default, but as others have noted, you might have options like specific identification that could be more tax-efficient depending on your situation. Keep detailed records of all your transactions including dates, amounts, and any reinvested dividends - this will make basis calculations much easier whether you do them manually or use software to help.

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Ellie Perry

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This is really helpful clarification! I'm actually dealing with a taxable brokerage account like you mentioned, so the proportional method seems like the right approach for my situation. I hadn't realized how different the rules are for retirement accounts vs regular investment accounts. One follow-up question - when you say "keep detailed records," what specific information should I be tracking beyond just the purchase dates and amounts? Should I be documenting things like dividend reinvestments separately, or does my broker usually handle that automatically in their cost basis reporting?

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AstroAce

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Great question about record keeping! Beyond purchase dates and amounts, you should definitely track dividend reinvestments separately - each reinvestment creates a new "lot" with its own cost basis and date. Also keep records of any stock splits, spin-offs, or merger transactions as these can affect your basis calculations. While many brokers now provide decent cost basis reporting (especially for shares purchased after 2011), they don't always have complete historical data, particularly if you transferred accounts or held investments before the reporting requirements kicked in. I'd recommend keeping your own spreadsheet or using investment tracking software to maintain a complete picture. Also document any return of capital distributions (common with REITs and some funds) as these reduce your cost basis rather than being taxable income. Having this documentation will save you major headaches during tax season, especially if you're using methods like specific identification for tax optimization.

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Ravi Kapoor

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One thing I'd add that hasn't been mentioned yet - if you're dealing with partial withdrawals regularly, it might be worth considering tax-loss harvesting strategies alongside your basis calculations. When you're withdrawing from investments that have gains, you could potentially sell other investments at a loss to offset some of the taxable gains. Also, timing can matter. If you've held the investment for less than a year, you'll pay short-term capital gains rates (taxed as ordinary income), but if you've held it for more than a year, you'll get the more favorable long-term capital gains rates. In your example with the $160 taxable gain using the proportional method, this rate difference could be significant depending on your income bracket. Just make sure you don't run into wash sale rules if you're planning to repurchase similar investments within 30 days of selling at a loss.

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This is really valuable advice about tax-loss harvesting! I hadn't considered the timing aspect with short vs long-term gains. Since I've held my investment for about 18 months, I should qualify for long-term rates which is definitely better for my tax bracket. The wash sale rule is something I need to research more - I didn't realize you couldn't just immediately buy back the same investment after selling at a loss. Do you know if this applies to similar but not identical investments too? Like if I sell one S&P 500 fund at a loss, can I immediately buy a different S&P 500 fund, or would that trigger the wash sale rule? Also, for someone relatively new to this, do you have any recommendations for tracking all these transactions and tax implications? It's getting pretty complex with partial withdrawals, potential loss harvesting, and making sure I'm optimizing for tax efficiency.

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Emma Bianchi

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I went through this exact same process about a year ago and can confirm what others have said - you absolutely do not need to have your trade name/DBA figured out before applying for your EIN. The EIN is tied to your LLC's legal name from your formation documents, not any trade name you might use. I was in the same boat as you, spending way too much time trying to come up with the perfect business name before submitting my EIN application. Finally realized I was just delaying the inevitable and submitted the application with the trade name field left blank. Got my EIN approved within 48 hours. Six months later when I finally settled on a DBA name I liked, I registered it with my county clerk's office (requirements vary by state/locality). The whole process took about 15 minutes and cost $75. Never had to contact the IRS about it - they only care about your LLC's legal name for tax purposes. My advice: submit your EIN application now without the trade name. You need that EIN for so many other business setup tasks like opening bank accounts, getting business licenses, setting up payment processing, etc. Don't let the perfect business name decision hold up your entire business launch timeline. You can always add the DBA later when inspiration strikes!

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This is such valuable advice! I'm actually in this exact situation right now - I've been procrastinating on my EIN application for over a month because I keep changing my mind about what I want to call my business. It's really reassuring to hear from multiple people that the trade name field is truly optional and won't cause issues later. One quick question - when you registered your DBA with the county clerk, did you need to bring any specific documentation about your LLC (like your Articles of Organization) or just fill out their DBA form? I want to make sure I have everything ready when I eventually get to that step. Thanks for sharing your timeline too - knowing that you got your EIN in 48 hours and then had months to think about the DBA really puts things in perspective. I'm definitely going to stop overthinking this and submit my application this week!

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I've been running my own single-member LLC for about 3 years now and went through this exact confusion when I first started. The trade name field on the EIN application is definitely optional - I left it blank on mine and never had any issues. What I learned is that your EIN is permanently tied to your LLC's legal name (the one filed with your state when you formed the LLC). The trade name/DBA is just an additional layer you can add later for marketing and business purposes, but it doesn't affect your tax ID at all. I actually didn't decide on my DBA until almost a year after getting my EIN, and the process was straightforward - just filed the paperwork with my state's business registration office and started using it. Your tax returns will always use your LLC's legal name and EIN regardless of what trade name you operate under. My recommendation: get your EIN now so you can move forward with opening business bank accounts and handling other setup tasks that require it. The perfect business name will come to you eventually, and when it does, adding the DBA is a simple administrative step that won't affect any of your existing tax or banking setup.

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Jay Lincoln

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This thread has been incredibly helpful! I'm just starting my LLC journey and was getting overwhelmed by all the different name decisions - legal name, trade name, DBA, domain names, etc. It's reassuring to hear from so many experienced business owners that the EIN process is much simpler than I was making it out to be. @Paige Cantoni your timeline of waiting almost a year before deciding on a DBA really puts things in perspective. I keep thinking I need to have everything perfectly planned out before taking any steps, but it sounds like the business setup process is much more flexible than that. One thing I m'curious about - did any of you run into issues with your business name choices being already taken when you finally got around to registering your DBAs? I m'worried about waiting too long and then finding out my preferred name isn t'available anymore.

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One important thing to keep in mind for future years - consider doing a backdoor Roth conversion instead of direct Roth IRA contributions if your income is close to or over the limits. Since you're married filing jointly and exceeded the 2023 Roth IRA income limits, you likely will again in future years. With a backdoor Roth, you'd contribute to a traditional IRA (no income limits for contributions, though you won't get a deduction) and then convert it to Roth. Just make sure you don't have any other traditional IRA balances that would complicate the pro-rata rule calculations. Also, for your current situation, double-check that your IRA provider reported the excess contribution withdrawal correctly on the 1099-R they'll send you for 2025. The distribution code should indicate it was an excess contribution return, which affects how it's taxed. This will be important when you file your 2025 return next year.

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Taylor To

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Great point about the backdoor Roth strategy! I'm definitely going to look into that for future years since we'll likely be over the income limits again. Quick question though - when you mention not having other traditional IRA balances that would complicate the pro-rata rule, does that include old 401k rollovers that I might have sitting in a traditional IRA? I have about $15k from a previous employer's 401k that I rolled into a traditional IRA a few years ago. Would that affect the backdoor Roth conversion calculations?

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Dmitry Popov

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Yes, unfortunately that $15k traditional IRA balance from your old 401k rollover would definitely complicate the backdoor Roth strategy due to the pro-rata rule. The IRS looks at all your traditional IRA balances combined when you do a Roth conversion, so you can't just convert the "new" non-deductible contribution by itself. In your case, if you contributed $6,500 of non-deductible money to a traditional IRA and then tried to convert it to Roth, the IRS would see your total traditional IRA balance as $21,500 ($15k + $6.5k). So when you convert the $6,500, only about 30% of it would be tax-free (the non-deductible portion) and 70% would be taxable. One potential workaround is to roll that $15k traditional IRA balance into your current employer's 401k plan first (if they allow incoming rollovers), which would clear out your traditional IRA balance and make the backdoor Roth clean going forward. Worth checking with your 401k plan administrator to see if that's an option.

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Paolo Conti

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I went through almost the exact same situation last year! Here's what I learned from my experience that might help clarify things for you: For the "Name of Individual subject to additional tax" question - definitely use just your name since you're the owner of the Roth IRA. Even though you filed jointly, the Form 5329 penalty is specific to the individual account holder. You're absolutely correct about needing separate forms for both 2023 and 2024. Since the excess contribution sat in your account during both tax years, you'll owe the 6% penalty for each year. So that's $390 for 2023 and another $390 for 2024 (assuming the full $6,500 stayed in the account for both complete years). One thing to double-check - when you withdrew the $6,500 in January 2025, did your IRA provider also calculate and withdraw any earnings attributable to that excess contribution? This is important because those earnings (if any) would be taxable income on your 2025 return, and the IRS can be particular about this calculation. Also, make sure you're using the correct year's version of Form 5329 for each filing - use the 2023 form for the 2023 penalty and the 2024 form for the 2024 penalty. The forms do get updated yearly and line numbers can change. You can definitely mail both forms together in one envelope with separate checks (if paying by mail) or pay both penalties online and mail the forms separately. Just include a brief cover letter explaining what you're submitting.

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